Render to sample: Which FX are rendered?

Is there some comprehensive documented description of how effects are applied during right-click -> Render To Sample? It seems not very intuitive; some effects are applied and some are not.

As far as I can tell, the current track’s effect chain is applied, and send devices are skipped. So, master effects and send effects are not applied, and “mute source” on sends is ignored (so effects that might never happen during normal playback may be rendered if they come after a send device with “mute source” checked).

Is that about right? Maybe it’s worth updating the documentation to clarify this logic. I’m editing this post as I experiment more…

It simply depends on your current selection within the pattern editor.

If your selection only covers a single track, then the render will only contain the currently enabled FX from that particular track.

If your selection spans both regular tracks and send tracks, then the render will also include FX from the send tracks.

The master FX do not get applied when using this rendering method (even if you select the master track), they are only applied when rendering the song.

So you can’t highlight JUST the Send Track? Meaning to do it effectively you will probably want to Mute the track between the desired source track and the send that has the effects on which you want??

Hey there dblue - long time no see (last time was I think in #musicdsp like 6 years ago)

The most confusing thing for me is how send tracks are not just excluded, but the send devices are disabled, causing effects to be applied when I wouldn’t expect them. For example if the fx chain is

Send[mute source] -> Chorus

Under no circumstances will you hear the chorus effect during playback this way, but render to sample will actually render the chorus effect. This kind of chain happens sometimes when automating the send device.

I guess the logic gets too complicated to describe accurately for documentation? For example if I have 3 tracks (2 for notes + 1 send):

Kick: Comp, Send[mute], Distortion
Snare: Delay, Send[mute], CabSim
Drums(send): LoFiMat

If I render the kick track alone, I will get Kick + comp + distortion.

If I render the snare track alone, I will get Snare + delay + cabsim.

If I render Kick + Snare, I will get the sum of those 2… (Kick + comp + distortion) + (Snare + delay + cabsim)

If I render all 3 tracks, I will get (Kick+Comp)+(Snare+Delay)+LoFiMat

If I render Snare+Drums, I will get (Snare+Delay)+LoFiMat

There would be no way to render Kick+Drums, because Snare is in the way; I would need to mute that track I guess.

Such a simple feature but so complicated at the same time :D

You can, actually. If you only highlight the send track contents and render to sample, then the render will contain whatever (un-muted) tracks are currently routed into that send. I can’t remember exactly when this was added, but it works as a kind of shortcut for manually selecting all desired tracks + the send track itself.

You do have a good point here. If the send device has mute source enabled, then we could/should probably try to respect that when rendering to sample from within that track. In the meantime, if you’re doing such automation within your song (and plan to use render to sample a lot), then I guess you also need to remember to disable the chorus when the send with mute source is enabled. Slightly annoying to have to do this every time, though, especially since you can’t normally hear the chorus.

Yep. As I mentioned above in the reply to kaza, you can actually just select the send track and render to sample from there. Muting the snare track before you do this should give the result you desire.

You have noooo idea :slight_smile:

Especially handy since in many cases, you can’t select some tracks and their send tracks because there is other stuff in the middle!

Ha. When doing a render to selection I always solo the stuff I want, so as to be sure nothing else gets rendered. Then, I select what I want usually with mouse or keyboard, e.g. Alt-T (Mark whole Track), Alt-Q (Mark Track in Block Loop Range), and if I want sends (they automatically get solo’d together with the original instrument tracks) I use Broaden Selection + Note Solo tool to extend the select to the right. Since I used solo (in solo mode, not mute others!) I only get the stuff I want in the renders.
If I want to apply master FX on the loop before saving to .wav or .xrni I’ll select master track in Pattern Editor, then go to Sample Editor and press the small FX button (or select all > right click > Process > Process Track DSPs)
So you see, it can definitely be a trick to render the stuff you want, in-renoise. But best feature I would want in Renoise before making this easier, is being able (no matter how slow it is!) to render stuff while playing. Renoise got multicore stuff already so… ?? :unsure:
O and I definitely make a habit out of Send devices always being on Keep Source, sometimes I’ll just turn the post fader to -INF or sth, but Mute Source indeed poses weirdness and unexpected renders etc. (Why would you even have a device after a Mute Source #Send?)

This scares, I don’t even wanna know :)

Because you can automate it on and off so it might not always be muted throughout the song? ;)