► Renoise 3 Beta testing starts - announcing Redux

I felt I had to respond directly to some of the things Taktik said, because they go against everything I thought any group of devs would think about music software they are creating:

Umm… yes. Obviously. What else would it be? What most people DON’T want?

I totally disagree. If software prevents you from doing something easily, it takes you more time, at which point you may have lost the idea you were trying to record, edit, etc. Taking you more time means you may just not bother doing whatever it is that the software makes more difficult for you, and write your music differently. Say you want to record audio and it’s difficult in Renoise, you might not be able to write the song you wanted to, because it takes you so much longer, and frustrates you so much, that you can’t do it. We only have limited time. Software should be designed to make things as easy and quick as possible, all the time.

Again, I totally disagree, and I’m sure most users of DAWs will disagree. The DAW is a tool, and if the tool is designed in a way that makes life difficult for you, you have to work harder and longer, unnecessarily. That’s the MOST irritating part, when users can easily see that they are performing unnecessary actions to do things that should be easy (like having to click through certain screens to access some function or other, etc.)

There is no workaround for the Pattern Matrix problem. Adding stuff that I never use doesn’t inspire me either.

I agree, but how can you know if you’re giving your users the workflow and interface they want, if you never showed them what you were working on, until it was finished? All that hard work and you don’t even know if it’s what people actually want.

It’s the same with user interface design: Microsoft have lost billions of dollars because their interface designers came up with ‘The Ribbon’ the ‘Metro’, which most users can’t stand. They allegedly did ‘testing’ but obviously the people responsible for interface design at Microsoft have to CHANGE things in order to justify their jobs, so nobody can trust their ‘testing’ results’. And what was the result? Most people hate Windows 8 because the fools removed the Start button and forced them to use Metro, etc.

Again, this is totally wrong and really concerns me. When people are writing music on their computers, they see other DAWs and test them out. They know that DAW ‘x’ can do so and so, but the DAW they are using can’t. They KNOW that their life would be made easier if they had ‘so and so’ functionality in the DAW they are using. It’s nothing to do with being stuck in what they are doing, it’s about feeling restricted and hampered when your DAW makes you do things you know aren’t necessary, or plain can’t do what you want at all (like recording audio, MIDI routing for arpeggiators, etc.etc.)
The issue is that the USERS, and the users alone, can SEE and experience every day what is holding them back in their DAW. I tried FL Studio and while I liked much of it, I can’t paste clips in with a mouse, it’s laborious and time consuming, and ridiculously slow.

Yes - since you devs only have a finite amount of time, and spent it on Redux, rather than adding features to Renoise which would bring in more sales.

You can keep Renoise alive by offering the features that users and future users actually want, above all others. It’s that simple.

That is all that I want - let us see what you are planning, don’t go ahead with major stuff that takes you months or years to do, without showing us and listening to our input.
Renoise 3 is no worse or better than 2.8 for me, for those who like the new changes, great, I hope they produce great things with them. For now I’m back to Buzz because I can’t write songs the way I want to, with the Pattern Matrix.

Even if we would have included the top 10 most features discussed here, this would not have added a Buzz sequencer to Renoise.

You’re not talking about what the community wants. You are talking about what you want. This is just fine, really, but please don’t claim that you want what all others want and we don’t do what others want. This is not fair.

You’re also keeping this whole forum busy for a a few days now with your point of view. We got your point. Repeating it over and over and over again does not make it more valid. I’m sorry, but we can’t do something for you right now. We won’t add a buzz sequencer into Renoise during the beta phase, so this whole discussion does not really help anyone right now.

I’ll move all further discussions from you into “your” Buzz thread from now on.

Finally. Writing music in DAW you’re comfortable with is so much smarter than bothering poor Renoise devs. Glad you made this decision.

Whats all this talk about Buzz? Can we stop talking about Buzz and more about Renoise? Also, for the love of God - can someone on the DEV team do a video on the new features and how they make sense?

I’m not a renoise veteran like most of you, but as more or less a newcomer to renoise (and in the field of trackers in general) I have to say, I really really like renoise 3 and find it very appealing to people like me without a lot of experience with audio software (much more so than a lot of other DAWs I have tried so far). I have casually used the Renoise 2.8 trial version in the past and bought my first licence 2 weeks ago. I find renoise 3 very inspiring and appreciate the new features (especially the native convolver, since there’s not that many of them on linux). Please keep up the good work, whatever direction renoise developement may take in the future.

Just one question, taktik. Could you give a quick comment on the state of lv2 support for linuxers?
Is it on the agenda at all and can can we expect that to happen at all in the (not so far) future, or have you decided it’s just too much work and not worth the effort to implement it right now?

@ xg 2003 …dude just spend a few days with only the matrix sequencer …
The matrix is fast , fluent , etc…I♥ it

It does everything you want it to do , in a different way …more then enough …If you can’t get over the fact that renoise is not buzz …you have to make a decicion which program you want to use …sure …

Taktik and team …thanks for putting effort in making renoise a better program ,
But the modulation system needs some rethinking !

WHO ?

@xg2003

i’ll just concede right now that you’re right in every aspect. also, i tend to not respond to someone who uses “lol” a million times in one response. there i go exaggerating again…

Whoever is mucking up the Buzz forums with complaints and really specific demands in a rude manner, who is obviously the same person also posting in this thread with specific demands in a rude manner: Shut up!

Edit: Sorry, where are my manners? Shut up, please.

coughmosiscough

I just took a quick look at the new sampler, and I am really excited! Worth a 3.0 upgrade in itself for sure! Well done devs :)/> An extensive video tutorial on the new stuff would still be amazing! I see KURTZ did a few in french - any chance you could do those in English? :)

I just looked into bugs report and so many fixed! Guys you rule :yeah: I expect new beta soon… Thanks for your hard work!

haven’t used my account like forever

just had log in and tell i like the improvement
takes a bit of getting used to, i had to get a second monitor to benefit to the full amount
but i like it

i think loads of people do. it’s just that they don’t mention it on the forum
Just my 2 cents

thanks and keep up the good work

Love it too even if i found some gui choice not very useful now (specially the new VSTi panel), the new improvements are greats !

I don’t understand some peoples here bitching about bad modulation system, before 3.0, we can’t have a simple enveloppe per sample in instrument, it’s already a big step foward.

The main focus of Renoise is the sequencer, that’s the most important & as it is now with pattern matrix, channel grouping, routing possibility, it’s near perfect for me…
Renoise is unique in music software & i don’t want a copy of the features we can found elsewere but a useful software that keep the tracker spirit first.

Don’t get me wrong, i’m a hardcore fan of Reaktor, but i use Renoise for composing, not creating super complex instruments and although i’d like to see more modulation possibility in Renoise, i think it need a lot of time to not break the actual workflow.

Hope some of you could understand my bad english :blink:

Thanks to the dev for this new version :yeah:

I think the main problem people (who understand the underlying details) have is that it will be the only step, if the current architecture is kept.

Actually, the main focus of Renoise (according to the developers) is the sampler.

I have only one complaint - and it seems nobody wants to answer this. Devs: How come you dont do proper how-to videos of the new features? This would be great for the existing users who do not have hours and hours of time to fiddle around without actually composing music - and it would be a great introduction to new people interested in what the hell this is all about.

I seriously do not understand how you can spend two years on an update (an excellent update might I add) - and then DO NOT spend an hour making a video about it. It is just beyond my comprehension. You should actually make LOTS of how-to videos and put them on Youtube, because there are not many good ones out there. I think with some proper guidance, people would understand trackers better and understand how they can be useful in a combination with another DAW.

Do take this as criticism :)

Best,
Klaus

I think the main problem is the long time in between releases without any roadmap. People wait for say 18 months, hoping for their personal most wanted feature to get added. Obviously most people’s dreams cannot come true - which means for them, they probably will have to wait and hope yet another 18 months. Again without any roadmap. Doing this for a couple of times/years is a surefire way to drive some people nuts.

my 2c

PS. Even though I pretty much gave up hoping for one of my most wanted features, I can live with(out) it and R3 got other awesome new features anyways. But I definitely hope for a slight change in information policy.

I’m sure they will make a video at some point. But it’s still beta, and it’s only available via backstage. So for now just enjoy the early access, figure out what you can, share tips with people…and when 3.0 is ready to drop I bet it comes with updated documentation and video information.

What are people waiting for? Renoise says exactly what it does on the home page and has a very generous demo. Yeah I get hoping for something to be implemented, but if it doesn’t happen, nobody’s worse off. Hopefully those people aren’t actually waiting during those 18 months, and are instead making lots of music with Renoise and figuring out ways to take advantage of new features as they come out.

To all those that say stop bitching , I say …explore it a few days …
In all honesty …I think renoise was NOT ready for beta 3 , subforums popping out of the ground like horny mushrooms on how to improve/ REdesign the so called Major improvements …that’s not something that should be happening during beta testing …
Pppff …

Well, they hope for their personal most wanted feature (whatever it may be) they think would be nice. I’m talking about how I think some people might feel. How some get disappointed or/and angry. I’m not saying they are perfectly right or wrong.