Sorry but I’ve got no experience on the freezing of Re-wire apps.
I’ll try to get my hands on Rebirth and try with that…
And for the second question, yes multiple versions of the songs would need to be saved
But anyhow I still think the play - issue remains the biggest problem. Take Skale tracker vsti for instance. It would be an otherwise perfect tool for tracking inside a sequencer and it runs perfectly ok as a vsti and has all the ft2 keycommands, but because it has no play / stop function it renders it unusable
A tick timed Renoise would work fine as a VSTi. Rellay, tick timing is not the root of all evil in this world.
Offtopic: Has someone really worked with Aodix (not just tried it out for 5 minutes) and could report if the anti tick thing (as implemented in Aodix) works or just makes things complicated?
Would be great to hear some non technical and non theoretical pros and cons about it.
As for with aodix, the current version keeps crashing on me so I can not really comment at the moment. There is apparently a new version coming out soon which I plan to try. Will let you know how I get on with it.
shame about the saving, will be interested however to see how you get on over the freezing issue.
Might have to try and get skale working again in XT, I had a lot of probs with it before like this, even so would be still hoping for my favourite tracker to get this functionality :happily dreams:
This sounds like a shame. It is also a shame that there seem to be a lot of trackers about at the moment but all seem to be lacking in some way or another. There are obviously a few coders who are interested in the area but don`t seem to want to work together so much.
My ideal would be renoise with extra coders ( I would personally be prepared to pay higher price at an update if necessary to fund )
Just from a quick search on KvR there are 7 trackers out there which support VST, so I guess in recent development. I also know of reVISIT which is being developed as a VST but (still buggy and in alpha stage though).
I have installed the new version of Aodix, and when I open it, it crashes
immediately you need to browse to the installation folder, and delete the configuration file (.cfg).
well, anyway I’ll give it a try, but honestly the no-save limitation is quite… limiting in the complexity of trial
you lucky: I installed it 3 times, and still not managed to get any audio from it; it gives an “ASIOStop() failed” error when trying to initialize my M-AUdio Audiophile ASIO driver, then the configuration does not get saved and/or program crashes or I get no audio from any VST instrument…
the more I see other programs, the more I love ReNoise
What happened with the imagination of the tracker and it’s inspiration for exploration of the undiscovered tracking trickeries?
There were so many things done in the past to spice up songs and so many combinations of tricks just only with the pattern effects that even the coders couldn’t image the effect of without noticing it.
It cracked heads of many coderss that wrote players for those formats since they were forced to actually sense the behaviour of closed source material that had only documented the wireframe of it’s songformat and some basic techniques of the tracker’s actions and respondsBut whatever the composer invented themselves for having this niche side-fx, lots of player-writers had to do rewriting the basic concepts they wrote to make the standard songs play correctly, but not the fancy stuff.
today it’s just like i see on many boards of various popular trackers:feature suggestions and complaints / rants about lacking…
Even if a workaround or trick exists… it’s usually just “too much work”.
Are we that lazy that the coders have to embed this all in it so you don’t need to do a lot of work?
So you don’t need to download extra free tools that do what Renoise doesn’t… tools that do things you should actually never expect a tracker to perform anyhow (not now and not in the future, neither did they do this in the past).
In the worst case i can understand it ain’t really funny if you have to purchase another expensive package to perform something that Renoise (or any other tracker) can’t do…
I do like the fact a lot of people really desire extra features lots of other more expensive programs have which means that the real marketvalue of Renoise may possibly be not far from the more expensive software like Sonic, Cubase and the likes.
FAFAIU from Taktik:Any coder that has any good idea for one of the many voted wishes upon the Renoise wishlist, and he/she also knows how to realise this idea, is welcome to contribute.
Well, don’t attach a high pricetag to that service but i can say from own experience that the reward for a good contribution should not be considered childish. It doesn’t pay your yearly mortage / rent though.
That was the same message I was getting here. After restarting aodix though it was working ok.
Just in case: about the getting no audio from VST, I was a little confused about this at first until I realised that I needed to go to the VST routing page and hook em up. Simply loading into the list is not the same as renoise.
Overall aodix seems a little more convoluted/ fiddly than renoise but I will give it more of a chance to see its advantages. I can see with a little advancement on usability that it could be quite a powerful tool with the modularity screen. Seems to require a bit more development yet however.
The main reason I use a tracker over other software is for the workflow. A lot of feateure requests go to enhancing this. Wanting features like freeze are to make life easier and the business of actually composing music more immediate.
The logic of these feature requests is : why do something in 10 steps if by a new feature you can do it in 1?
Often the feature requests are for keeping up with the VSTs that are now incorperated and using them to their full potential. Also the difference between requiring to get production standards closer to potential levels these days. (this in itself is amazing that the possibilty is there now ITB in any computer musicians home!)
In any case it makes sense allround to add features to renoise to help the composer. taktik seems to hold this philosophy which I am greatful for and look forward to his future improvements while I see he takes note of what the users desire (poll for example).
The simple point of my post was: more coders → faster development → greater usability. Particularly for musical workflow, mixing and mastering.
Posted a link to that thread on Kvr when it was released but there was no real interest unfortunately. (know it was bumped back a while ago too)
no I don’t have Cubase installed (of course ), but Aodix is the only program which still sees my Terratec EWX2496 ASIO Driver, which has been uninstalled a couple of months ago
@ledger:
you’re right, now it does produce sound. My fault, because I was quite pissed off by the startup problems and didn’t check the documentation
ok, here are my two cents about Aodix way of sequencing:
Aodix features something we already discussed a lot in the past: pattern zooming. The “tickless” engine is actually driven by the “PPQN” (Points Per Quarter Note) value, which is way too coarse to be useable. Also, this value is fixed for each song, which is a real pain, if you plan to make something different than 4/4 house music. This said, adjusting the duration of a note can result in a work of mouse and eye, not so different than what a pianoroll (which is indeed always flowing on the left side of the sequencer) requires. In this field, a standard tracker is absolutely superior, and ReNoise, with its “Fx” (note cut) command, is even better.
Putting all together, piano roll and visually editable note duration in the tracker of Aodix are completely redundant, while it lacks a tracking command for this: people who like piano roll will be more than happy to be able to drag the rectangles freely, but what about hex freaks?
The two worlds do not exclude each other: a neat way to implement this in ReNoise, as already stated by lots of users in the pattern zooming discussion, would be to keep number of ticks per row available (F1xx), also maybe have a TPB (Ticks Per Beat) value (F2xx? 00<xx<FF), and let users zoom up to tick level into each single row.
I repeat: in my opinion, as it is now, Aodix version of a complex ReNoise song would be an unextricable mess of rectangles, but we’re not making CAD’s, aren’t we?
to my previous considerations, I have to add that Aodix is a VST/MIDI host only, id est: it does not load samples. By thinking a bit more about this limitation, it gives more sense to Aodix design, but my ideas written above remain valid
I would love to see renoise with a better resolution.
I know for sure so many ppl will not use this wonderful program because its almost impossible to do a simple and basic thing as recording from a midi keyboard
You could say f#%# them, go use cubase or something, or you can try to welcome them and broaden the renoise userbase. Who knows, old trackers could even learn a few new editing technics
Yes I’m also talking about the neverending topic of the pianoroll feature.
I think aodix got something, but still I dont quite like the way it is. Of course its lacking lots of the standard tracking features like a inbuild sampler etc, but still I’m not sure I would need the rectangles on top of the tracking note/numbers. I guess they are ok to have, but you should be able to hide them to not clutter things up. If I had to choose I would much more have a separate flexible pianoroll window.
I just wrote a post in the pinned pianoroll thread with a few screenshots to sketch some ideas.
As for the resolution itself, i agree very much with It-Alien. Give renoise a 256tick per line and a ‘lines per beat’ parameter, and you have plenty of resolution. A new delay column from 00 to FF tick delay.
The use of this column could still be fully optional as you could still use delay command in fx column or even pan column (just devide the 256 with F for each value from 0-F in panning etc.
I think this has been discussed very will in the pinned threads. A better resolution would be the next big step for renoise IMO. Is there a single negative thing about this? Maybe it will use a bit more cpu?
don
), but Aodix is the only program which still sees my Terratec EWX2496 ASIO Driver, which has been uninstalled a couple of months ago
