DAW’s evolve. So does Renoise, and hopefully it will continue doing so.
Many people claiming that you can do this and that much better and faster in this and that DAW usually just don’t know the tools good enough to do a really fair comparison, I think…
There are of course exceptions. And sometimes there really are some PITA differences for specific things that you can’t live without in your workflow.
If we can clog the really obvious gaps (whatever these are…) without compromise the simple basic tracker feeling, I think we are in the right path for Renoise.
@Xerxes
Perhaps you could try to be more specific about some things.
What do you really think should change in the GUI? Should anything change, or just be added?
Is it the tools we have/lack, the layout of things, the (lack of) flexibility? etc…
About track view, do you mean visualization of samples/wave and notes, automation etc?
And about the mixer/mixing stage, what can be better you think?
Another mixer on top of the mixer? An clip arranger etc? In/out device for easier external bus handling etc.
It’s kinda impossible to discuss and improve without being more specific here.
Anyway, I have many of the same thoughts as you. My dream music making tool is renoise/tracker kinda interface in the creative process, and on top of that a more daw like arranger/mixer. But everything within the same app, so you can much easier go back and forth in “creative mode” and “mixer/arranger mode”.
For instance:
Even if you work with long audio clips in an arranger for instance, you can still “extract” and modify this clip back to where it was originally created. Like, after a pattern selection rendering I can get a long audio clip, but could still have the “history source” of this clip attached to it (Midi/instrument/sample, pattern/fx data that was rendered etc). So I will mostly just arrange or do some other stuff with this audio clip in the arranger, but whenever I need to, I can extract and modify the source of the clip and rerender it for instance, no need to “store” stuff in hidden patterns etc. Just be able to stick different clips and variations of clips together as one clip in a clip list. Gives you much better overview in more complex setups. Gives you the best of “both worlds” IMO, and makes it up to the user to pick the best suited workflow.
However, quite a lot of improvements and new “tools” and editors are then needed for something like that, and most of all a more flexible GUi…
strange. i recently ditched reaper and decided to focus my entire workflow (both the creative aspect and the mixing aspect) into renoise. this is after having dealt with the more traditional horizontal sequencers for quite some time.
Every DAW has it’s flow, it’s strengths and it’s weaknesses. And sometimes weakness is an advance of a DAW. I really really like trackers! I have worked in years in them and haven’t found too many complaints about their way of work. But indeed there are some important things that could be handled different in Renoise, and that could help making them more fun, complete and powerful.
For me, first thing is: more advanced sampler! I think that currently it’s to skinny. Trackers are just that, samplers that can make some crazy things with samples on a different kind of levels not possible with traditional daws:
velocity layers (more samples per note and per layer) - sample slicing (create regions that are bind to notes, cc or similar) - some advanced modulation (envelopes and lfo’s per note, per sample, not only per instrument) - direct2disc recording (and saving to a file inside project folder) - real-time sample effects (stretching, pitch shifting, re-synthesis) - track structure as seen in Aodix (or just TPB zooming) - some form of piano roll (also Aodix could be inspiration for this, because it just has that slick overview of note lengths) - some internal generators (like old 303 and synth from Noizetrekker, they were great!) so that renoie could be self-contained tool in every aspect - track routing to internal busses (not only to output channels of a sound card… to send whole stream to dedicated send track for processing)
Some of these are not so important, but some of them can do a magic to a workflow. I have just finished a fast remix of a song and working with tracker and samples was a great and refreshing experience.
I don’t know… I have a friend who plays the guitar but he owns many instruments, he has an electric guitar and a couple of acoustics, he also has a 6 stringed banjo, tuned as a guitar, and an ukulele, tuned to fit the 4 highest strings of a guitar, and no matter what instrument he plays it sounds exactly the same.
Essentially all DAWs are the same: arrange sound on timelines. Nothing will ever change that because that’s just what music is: sound over time.
So, just love your DAW.
I already made love to Cool Edit, Ableton, Ardour, Milkytracker, Renoise, Samplitude, Ableton again, then returned to Renoise - i just love to work as mouse-less as possible at the moment and 'til today i couldn’t find any way to keyboard-control midi-blobs in a piano-roll - but i am really looking forward to new interfaces like kinect to combine kung-fu and renoise-programming - and brain-machine-thought-control-interfaces will be fun too.
CUT!
Hey - just found a new recipe: Tuna-Apple-Peanut-Salad = Perfect Healthy Lazy Slackerhackers Meal and ready to eat in 45 seconds :]
Dear Renoise,
I’ve stopped enjoying music software all together, I’ve loved you renoise for the past 7 years, the first 5 of them the very hottest, the last 2 a dull lackidaisical flame and it’s the little things that hurt the most.
Once I was an avid lover, and now I am abandoning you, for no one else…
-advanced mode in instrument section with a total change in the sampler. it need more precise envelope, updated filter (at least 2 with parralel/serial stuff), layering , round robin and so on. perhaps scripting in the instrument section is the solution dunno if it’s possible
more complex routing in the mixer. we need i think something like the effect rack in ableton: parralel routing inside a particular colon
with this renoise will be the tracker of 21th century
My 2 cents:
Renoise is excellent for programming & is a superb sampler (sampler in steroids).
The cons: To record live instruments, voices, acoustics sounds a linear arrangement view is better.
If I want to humanize (I dont want all strictly quantized) I find the option “off” in Ableton very cool, you are not forced to use 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, etc.
I need to test if I can get similar result in Renoise with a high LPB settings.
Renoise is excellent for sound design and sculpting (and quantized music). Otherwise it feels very rigid (locked tracks into patterns w max length, no notes between lines, no layering of synths or samples, note length separate from note). Some functionality is put into awkward places (I always seem to have delay finding instrument settings) or not visible next to the data it affects (automation, long samples). I guess all possible and impossible improvements exist already in the ideas/suggestions forum.
to me, this is where old skool tracking style looses out. being locked into the predetermined pattern length/not having a flexible tool for arranging on more of a macro level. OK, theres the pattern matrix edit, originally I thought this was amazing and it lets you see a nice overview of your project but in reality, I haven’t found this as useful as I anticipated.
buzz got it spot on here with the sequencer view.
but… i don’t know how this kind of thing could be integrated into renoise / if it would ever work because its so different in the way it works
my workflow has evolved over time into doing the detailed bits in renoise - ie. getting together the material, sounds, making loops/sections, triggering outboard gear and then jamming and recording the results into another DAW (i seem to have settled on reaper) where I feel I have a better overview for structuring a project as a whole.
To me, the Renoise guys are making an awesome tool that complements my existing rig in amazing ways.
I don’t really understand why people get so frustrated when they can’t accomplish a task with a particular tool, when other tools are available. There’s a lot of stuff I want to do that’s easier to do in Live than in Renoise: I do those things in Live. There’s a lot of things that are easier to do in Renoise than in Live: I do those things in Renoise.
An electronic studio combines many tools, like a carpenter’s workshop combines many tools. If you’re having a hard time turning a screw with a hammer, USE A SCREWDRIVER. Don’t email the hammer manufacturer about how disappointed you are that their hammers are missing crucial screwdriving features.
But discussions like this are a good thing. For example, now I think that a pattern matrix whith less limits (like the one on Jezkola Buzz) will be very useful.
