Renoise vs workstation?

Hi, I am a very old tracker (from Atari’s age), and want to recover this hobby.

I had some years ago an Alesis Fusion (just after it was launched), and I loved it, and did some music on it, but unfortunatelly it was very unreliable (it broke two times) and a bit difficult to work with. Then I bought a Motif, and hate it very much, it was impossible to compose anything on that “calculator screen”. For two days I had a Korg Karma, I thought that Karma was going to be incredible, but it was just an advanced arpegiator which was impossible to modify to my own ideas easily, so I returned it.

Now there is the Roland FA, which everybody says it has an incredible sequencer, and SuperNatural instruments, which I don’t have with Renoise. Ideally, Renoise is the way I like most to compose, it is very fast, I can enter into de finest detail of the music, and it can be controlled by a cheap MIDI piano, but I don’t have the instruments nor the means of a good workstation to inmediatly record my ideas, to have instant access to the knobs with the appropiate effects without having to remap them, and an easy to use arpeggiator. Yes, Renoise can use VST, but I only use Linux, which uses DSSI and bassically the only good instrument available is ZynAddsubfx, which is not enough.

So, what would you say to me about Renoise if you have to convince me to buy it and not the workstation?

Just based on some quick Googling, the 61-key Roland FA-06 retails for around $1400 (down to $1200 on some sites), while the 88-key FA-08 retails for around $2100 (down to $1800 on some sites).

Renoise is $75. Even cheaper if you find a used copy from somewhere like the marketplace forum at KVR.

So I think we’re really talking about completely different things here, aren’t we? It seems like the real question here is whether you should spend a fat stack of dollarpounds on some shiny new gear. Trying to talk yourself down from a nice impulse buy, perhaps? :slight_smile:

Anyway… Surely if you have the kind of cash for the Roland hardware, then it’s probably not too much of a stretch to also get Renoise, is it? If you do have the luxury of getting both, then why not simply get both? I’m sure you’ll find ways to use both systems in your workflow.

Renoise “out of the box” obviously cannot even begin to compete with the diversity of sounds you’ll get from a professional studio grade workstation keyboard. I don’t think anyone will argue with that. You can obviously invest some of that money into professional sound libraries, but Linux does unfortunately limit things quite a bit when it comes to the “industry standard” plugins like Kontakt (at least without a bunch of hacking to get Windows VST smoothly running on Linux).

Either way, if you’re in any doubt about Renoise, then simply spend more time with the demo before making up your mind. You have no major restrictions there apart from the lack of .wav export, so you can take as much time as you need to decide whether it works for you, whether it co-operates nicely with any external gear you have (or may be about to acquire!), and so on.

When it comes to the Roland gear… Well, I guess you’ll just have to spend some hours lurking at your local music hardware shop, putting a bunch of finger prints all over the shiny equipment :wink:

You can use SFZ in Renoise so you can make library based on them.

So I think we’re really talking about completely different things here, aren’t we? It seems like the real question here is whether you should spend a fat stack of dollarpounds on some shiny new gear. Trying to talk yourself down from a nice impulse buy, perhaps? :slight_smile:

Yeah, this is pretty much it… I’m trying to stop myself to buy another workstation which will be just a bit better than the others I had. At the end, probably using Renoise is more than enough, and my only complain is about instruments (which is in fact a lot):

You can use SFZ in Renoise so you can make library based on them.

This is interesting… unfortunatelly I couldn’t test this because I don’t have access to the beta program, and SFZ has been added to 3.1 only, I think.

I think the best way that could have Renoise to compite with others is to offer a good bunch of instruments, well optimized, out of the box. Again, it is said that the commercial version does include a link to a 800Mb+ library, but the page of the authors does not work for me and cannot hear demos: www.puremagnetik.com <- does this works for you?

I had some years ago an Alesis Fusion (just after it was launched), and I loved it, and did some music on it, but unfortunatelly it was very unreliable (it broke two times) and a bit difficult to work with

Do you still have the fusion? I have an 88-key that I got in ~2005 and I LOVE it (I’ve never had reliability issues, but I know that many people did and that’s basically why it died off so fast).

If you still have it, I’d suggest forgetting about the sequencer / workstation aspect (it sucks imo) and using it as a sound source only… program sounds on it and sample them into Renoise for some fun :slight_smile:

In any case, yeah I think it makes sense to spend $75 on Renoise, make loads of tunes, and then if you feel compelled for a workstation then go for it… but you really don’t need it (imo).

I only use Linux, which uses DSSI and bassically the only good instrument available is ZynAddsubfx

This is nonsense, there are quite a few excellent instruments available for linux.

If you already have good equipment that can make sounds that you like, and your main issue with them is the sequencer, why not just sample your existing equipment for use in Renoise?

If you’re linux only and want a traditional DAW, then Bitwig is an excellent option.

I’m a big fan of both.

Both feel very different and have different strengths. However if you used to be a tracker user you’ll find the interface of Renoise pretty much bob on you’ll just have to learn different codes as they dropped the oldschool HEX ones in… I’m going to say 2.8 because that’s what my memory tells me.

Do you still have the fusion? I have an 88-key that I got in ~2005 and I LOVE it (I’ve never had reliability issues, but I know that many people did and that’s basically why it died off so fast).

If you still have it, I’d suggest forgetting about the sequencer / workstation aspect (it sucks imo) and using it as a sound source only… program sounds on it and sample them into Renoise for some fun :slight_smile:

In any case, yeah I think it makes sense to spend $75 on Renoise, make loads of tunes, and then if you feel compelled for a workstation then go for it… but you really don’t need it (imo).

Yeah, I loved the Fusion a lot, but after breaking two times, fortunately under warranty, I sold it before warranty expiration. I liked the sounds a lot, The sequencer was a bit frustrating for fine editing, but worked.

Another issue with the Fusion is that Alesis pretty much abandoned it two years after release, probably due to the high costs of maintaining something that was so unreliable and so ‘unfinished’. At least in my case you couldn’t trust the OS to be up for some hours without hangs or bugs.

This is nonsense, there are quite a few excellent instruments available for linux.

Yes, I just found this and is amazing, but still I don’t find good acoustic VST:

http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html

If you already have good equipment that can make sounds that you like, and your main issue with them is the sequencer, why not just sample your existing equipment for use in Renoise?

Right, I was even thinking on downloading demos of VST in a windows machine and sample then, and then create a huge library, but that requires an inmense amount of time and the result cannot be the same because the dynamics are not the same. For example, a guitar in a workstation is not only a guitar, depending on how do you play it, sound changes to make it more realistic, which is something that you lose on Renoise, I think.

If you’re linux only and want a traditional DAW, then Bitwig is an excellent option.

I’m a big fan of both.

Both feel very different and have different strengths. However if you used to be a tracker user you’ll find the interface of Renoise pretty much bob on you’ll just have to learn different codes as they dropped the oldschool HEX ones in… I’m going to say 2.8 because that’s what my memory tells me.

I have tested Btwig and is very nice, I think that nearly at the level of Logic Pro. But you are right, I still prefer Renoise, I think it matches very much my way of working.

If you can purchase expensive hardware you can purchase a 100$ windows operating system to run vst’s
and if u don’t feel comfortable in windows because it ain’t free but you feel comfortable spending tons of money in high end hardware than i have no clue how to help

If you can purchase expensive hardware you can purchase a 100$ windows operating system to run vst’s
and if u don’t feel comfortable in windows because it ain’t free but you feel comfortable spending tons of money in high end hardware than i have no clue how to help

You think people use Linux, because they cannot afford Windows? You are funny!

You think people use Linux, because they cannot afford Windows? You are funny!

and you think linux users use linux because its free? , Most linux users run proprietary software

lets face it your’re “funny” :slight_smile:

have no idea why anyone run linux at all : D

is it a hipster thing?

You can use SFZ in Renoise so you can make library based on them.

In the beta? Wow. I missed that. :slight_smile:

and you think linux users use linux because its free? , Most linux users run proprietary software

lets face it your’re “funny” :slight_smile:

What makes you think this is what I think? “Being about price” was your point, wasn’t it?

I think money has absolutely nothing to do with why people use Linux.

What makes you think this is what I think? “Being about price” was your point, wasn’t it?

I think money has absolutely nothing to do with why people use Linux.

My apologies but we’re both wrong

There are alot amounts of reasons why people use linux and why not
Yes some people cannot afford windows this is by everyone different
Anyways to the OP may i ask why you don’t purchase windows to run renoise with vst’s? We would love to know why.

I dunno about the OP but I know personally I’d love to be able to bin off windows. However the £1000s I’ve spent on VSTs and my Steam library make that difficult.

I had Mint running on my laptop for a while, keeping Windows on the desktop PC. I was gutted when I eventually had to switch back.

I just prefer linux, I am, however still forced to live in Microsoft’s world. Maybe one day when Wine is better than it is…

My apologies but we’re both wrong

There are alot amounts of reasons why people use linux and why not
Yes some people cannot afford windows this is by everyone different
Anyways to the OP may i ask why you don’t purchase windows to run renoise with vst’s? We would love to know why.

The most important reasons are political, and the second most important reasons are about privacy, the third is about safety, and the forth is about reliability. That is pretty much about everything a person should care about software, apart from getting the job done.

For political reasons, I don’t feel it is right to give a company like Microsoft or Apple such and impresive and incredible power, so much that they can stop the world right now and make it a hell if they want. Also, I won’t give them the ability to access my documents and all the data about myself.

Windows is incredibly unsafe, I don’t trust on it even for stupid things. It is super easy to crack a Windows machine, and Microsoft is known to enter back doors in every single release of their OS. I don’t have anything to hide for a goverment or a jury, as I don’t have anything ilegal, but I do have a lot to hide to criminals, hackers, and many others that do know how to use the backdoors, including but not limited to Microsoft employees and friends, and any other casual hacker knowing them.

Also, reliability of Windows is horrible, or at least it was some years ago, I’m not sure about it now but I suppose that with new features there comes always new bugs.

I’m also concern about non-free software. I always do prefer free software, with ocasional buyings, with extreme caution, of some non-free software if they don’t come from suspicious sources. I usually help in making some free software as I’m able to program. Yes, Renoise is not free, but there is not real alternative, and I would tolerate buying it, as I am not a purist, althought I would like it to be free.

I hope this answers your question.

I see what you’re saying, but to be fair linux is only secure if you configure it to be. It’s super easy to have an insecure linux machine too and the bugs don’t always get picked up straight away (remember shellshock last year? That had been open for near 20 years when it got discovered) I mean sure, if you’re using properly configured SELinux/AppArmor then you’re harder to hack but most people turn that stuff off and still think they’re secure.

I’m not disagreeing with you that linux is more secure but there’s a lot of people out there who will just stick Ubuntu on with the default settings and think they’re uncrackable… They’re not.

I see what you’re saying, but to be fair linux is only secure if you configure it to be. It’s super easy to have an insecure linux machine too and the bugs don’t always get picked up straight away (remember shellshock last year? That had been open for near 20 years when it got discovered) I mean sure, if you’re using properly configured SELinux/AppArmor then you’re harder to hack but most people turn that stuff off and still think they’re secure.

I’m not disagreeing with you that linux is more secure but there’s a lot of people out there who will just stick Ubuntu on with the default settings and think they’re uncrackable… They’re not.

Security was only one point. In any case Ubuntu in its default configuration is much much more secure than Windows in its best configuration.

Anyway security is not a problem if you just buy a Windows computer for using just as a music station, and your main computer is Linux. Problem is that I don’t want to switch computers and/or partition the hard disk, as it is very unconfortable. But even if I choose that, we still have the other problems I mentioned, specially politics. I want to remain strong in that sense, I’ve been using Linux only for at least 15 years now and is working very good for me. Now I do see that in the music scenario it is very good too, but clearly very different. Jack is wonderful and there are many plugins out there. I only lack a good orchestra plugin but that can be solved by buying a GIG library, which Linux can use.

So I’m probably going to Renoise instead of the workstation. I’m going to let settle before taking a decision.