What do we actually see here?
Four channels (they’re the same, just for demonstration’s sake) with a sample at the beginning (any kind of percussion sample, may it be kick, hat or whatever).
Each channel has a different way of trying to retrigger the sample. With instrument number value or without it. The effect in the volume section or in the effects section.
In any way I noticed the following:
For the Y values
1 −1
2 −2
3 −4
it works without problems. But once you get to higher values than that, all the rest gives you the same effect as E3/0E03, or no sound at all. That depends on the sample. I tried so many different ones. I’m saying this because I’m very familiar with that effect and how it normally works on other platform, may they be older, or newer. Normally from my experience, E4/0E04 should give a triplet feel, so as E8/0E08.
I have to use this effect for percussion with the lack of higher resolution (which I understood will come in the future of Renoise).
I’m posting quite alot regarding suggestions and things that I think that are problems not because I’m trying to be critic. I’m really, fully immersed with that great program which has so many wonderful tools.
Then again, I might be doing something wrong here (with the way I’m trying to retrigger the sample).
Edit:
I must say that I have the same problem while starting with the wanted value, for example:
000 | C-500… 0E05 |
001 | — … 0E05 |
002 | — … 0E05 |
003 | — … 0E05 |
004 | — … 0E05 |
005 | — … 0E05 |
006 | — … 0E05 |
007 | — … 0E05 |
This is just a guess but is your song running at speed 03 (ie. 3 ticks per row) ?
The retrigger command works in ticks, and it will only function correctly when using a value which is less than your song’s current speed setting. At speed 3, retrigger 0E01 will work, 0E02 will work, 0E03 will have no effect, 0E04 will have no effect, etc.
( Edit )
I see what you were saying now, sorry.
( Edit 2 )
I thought I had a way around it, but I just tested it and it didn’t work. Meh!
I knew what you meant though. You want the longer retriggers (ie. 0E04, 0E05, etc. running at speed 3) to continue over the pattern rows, so you can build up a kind “bouncing ball” effect, or just interesting retrigger rolls, etc. I agree with you, it’d be nice if it behaved this way. There have actually been a few extensive retrigger behaviour threads on here in the past. A lot of interesting ideas have been thrown around.
so its working like that for ~ 5 years now.
make sure you check the suggestion- part of this forum and http://tutorials.renoise.com/
and its no bug (like dblue already said).
After seeing someone post it, I forget who, but credit goes out to that person, I recently switched to speed 6 and quadrupled my BPM. So, as of a few weeks ago if my track was Speed 3, 175 BPM, i now set my parameters to Speed 6, 700 BPM. This makes 6 retrigger ticks available at 4 times the resolution. Same with the delay command.
Basically, speed is an integer that divides each line in the tracker view. Effects like retrig, and delay, and any other effect that references tick can only have as many divisions as your speed. If you set Speed 3, you only get 3 ticks between each line.
At speed 6, here’s what “retrig” actually means
0E00 - nothing
0E01 - play the sample 6 times, at ticks 1 2 3 4 5 6
0E02 - play the sample 3 times, at ticks 2, 4, and 6
0E03 - play the sample twice, at ticks 3 and 6
0E04 - play the sample twice, at ticks 4 and 6
0E05 - play the sample twice, at ticks 5 and 6
0E06 - play the sample once, at tick 6
0E07 - nothing, because this overlaps the next note
First, thank you for clearing this up for me. Even though I can see the logic here, how could this work the same for many years and on so many platforms? My only guess is that the retrigger effect there is BPM based and not speed based.
So that’s right, it’s not a bug, but that doesn’t mean that the effect can’t be reworked so it works better and more logical, should I now always start to think my BPMs doubled? That’s a bit weird. Also it might cause some problems with syncronization with some effect plugin, that won’t accept more than 300 BPM, there are quite a few, and I do get over 150 BPM sometimes.
All the years that I’ve been using trackers I managed to get retrigger values between 1 to F without any problems no matter in what speed I am.
What do you think?
Edit: Maybe the moderators can move this thread to the Ideas & suggestions forum?
Haha, you have to really let go and see this as a high-res 175 BPM.
Another technique I’ve adapted recently, after watching video tutorials, was the realization of the usefulness of turning off pattern follow (ctrl num =). From a Fast Tracker lineage, I thought this was stupid. But after seeing people modify notes live while the song is playing, i realzed that I don’t have to be looking at the pattern fly by the screen all the time. I now press ctrl num = about as often as I press escape and spacebar.
A few weeks ago, I wrote a track at 120 BPM. My settings were multiplied by 4, thus Speed 6 at 480 BPM. The track is without a doubt a 120 BPM track but I have more lines to work with, and more ticks to work with, so I can “humanize” and fine grain my details on a bigger canvas.
Your suggestion is a good one, but consider the “on crack BPM” technique. It has offered me a ton of freedom after more than a decade of tracking.
First, about turning off the pattern follow, I was an IT user, and it was always off there. I never had it on in Renoise, that’s very uncomfortable for me.
Now to the subject, even in your way of work, you can’t use a higher value than 9 with the retrigger sound effect.
That’s an effect with tons of possibilities of nice sounds, but the way it’s being implanted in Renoise makes it very limited.
In any other tracker it’s possible in ANY speed to retrigger between 1 and F. It shouldn’t really be tick related, but purely BPM based.
Is there a possibility of having a change in future version of Renoise?
Edit: Also, please don’t forget what I mentioned about syncronization with other VST effect that in many cases just won’t do in those 4x multiplied BPMs.
With Renoise I recorded two examples- one with speed 3 and BPM 125 and one with speed 6 and BPM 250 (I checked and that’s the equal. I don’t know how you reached 700 BPM from 175BPM as 6 is only two times 3 and not 4 times. For 175 BPM with speed 3 by the way, your BPM with speed 6 should be 350). http://www3.speedyshare.com/data/546552851…peed3bpm125.mp3 http://www3.speedyshare.com/data/546552851…peed6bpm250.mp3
Now you can probably hear for yourself what I’m talking about. Also you can hear that the effect sounds a bit weird sound-wise when compared to the other examples.
You can do this experiment yourselves to see. My guess is that many of you don’t find this effect important, or useful.
I like how the retrigger sounds in It compared to Renoise, but I think if this 'd be regirously changed in favor of that It-behavior…there could be problems with backwards compatibility playing (older) Renoise song files. That’s one reason why I don’t think this’ll happen. Maybe if the hex limitation in de patterncommands ever gets ‘broken’ an extra retrigger command with It behavior could be introduced??
"I don’t know how you reached 700 BPM from 175BPM as 6 is only two times 3 and not 4 times`
175 bpm speed 6 is 350 bpm speed 6 is 700 bpm speed 6
You have to expand the pattern input, and increase patternsize for it to sound the same as 175 bpm…but there´s nothing wrong with the 700 bpm choise.
except various tempo- based vst(i)s; its hard to use them with such a high bpm.
i would rather like to see a change in the speed concept ( e.g. tpb → buzz).
but thats nothing important.
the best retrigger effect you will ever hear is from Unwieldy Tracker in jeskola buzz.
most possibilities.
