Sidechaing a Bass from a kick in a complex instrument?

Is it possible to side chain a base from the kick using complex instruments in renoise 3 normally i would have the kick in its own track.

Seems it’s not possible, couse we restricted to use metadata from instrument dsp chains on global level :(

The only way I’ve managed to do this is to have the bass sound in the same instrument as the drums but mapped to a different range and fx chain. But this is a bit of a faff and doesn’t work for vst’s
+1 for sending modulation outside of an instrument…

Already the theoretical approach imo fails. Triggering a sidechain is not an instruments job. Triggering the sidechain happens in the mix, not in the instrument. An instrument’s job is to produce sound and nothing else. It’s neither the job of an instrument to pass meta-data. That’s a controller’s job. When you want to layer a live trumpet with a live trombone, you don’t blow through the trumpet into the trombone, right!? It’s the same with meta-data.

To make it more obvious: When you hit a 3-voice chord in a native instrument, how and where would you define the receivers for the passed meta-data of those 3 voices, when it in the next line then could be only 1 voice or 8 voices be played instead? Doesn’t work and fails also already at the approach.

Makes sense, in retrospect modulation should probably stay inside the instrument but instruments should support multi audio outs so that say the kick audio signal could be routed to a track with a signal follower (or a sidechain input if that ever happens)

If we’re talking about a drum kit now, we’re still talking about a single native instrument. But what would be the problem with playing the kick drum on a seperate track? You’d have to isolate the kick signal anyway on a seperate track. :)

This is not possible, if u have dsp chain on samples.
For me it means that i’m loosing half of benefits of the new instrument system, and i have to stuck with my regular big messed patterns.

The output of an instrument is not routed to different tracks, when it’s played on those? That’d indeed be kinda bad. I actually guessed, an instrument played on multiple seperate tracks would use multiple instances of the used FX chains, one per track. ^^

Let me check that.

Edit: Well, you’Re right indeed. That’s kinda bad news. That’d actually be a requiered suggestion then. When an instrument with FX chains is played on multiple tracks, there should be running several independent instances of those chains on each track. That’s also how I imagined it to be. While… this of course is gonna be a real perfomance killer.

Yes, that’s the way I would usually do it, however the phrases in v3 enable you to program several beat patterns mapped to different keys all in one instrument. If you do this then there isn’t currently a way to send just the kick out to use a sidechain input.

Well, a second alternative would be to trigger the sidechain from a phantom/ghost track. You just clone the kick to a seperate track, replace the instrument with a single kick sample, apply the triggering and mute that track’s signal afterwards.

That also has the benefit, you’re able to keep the track pumping, while the audible kick isn’t playing.

My point is, thats its a bit sad, becouse I’m still need to work with large lpb on global level. Some kind of output “meta-macros” could do the job.

What is the exact problem? Why do you need large global LPB? I don’t get, how this is related to the instrument’s FX chains.

On a first look, its seems like standart pattern + matrix could be used as an useful arranger.
Ok, well its all about using higher lpb in phrase editor, to keep regular patterns smaller and more readble, and ability to triger some events on another tracks, or instruments, not just a sidechain but lot other fx’s.

Hm, how about setting up key followers (trackers) on the main track? You can use several key followers, sharing the keyboard range with exclusive parts per follower. You’d just probably have to setup a lot of them, dependent on how many keys/events you’re going to trigger.

Yeah, but an advantage of phrases is that I can get creative with drum programming, so for example I might create a drum phrase and then trigger along with 0S and 0B commands to create variations. In this case it would be a pain to work out where every kick lands and then create a ghost track for it.
The best way I have found so far is just to use the filters on the signal follower to isolate the kick frequency but this doesn’t always work well. Being able to send out the kicks effect chain would solve this problem. You can send it to a different output on a multi out sound card but not internally to a different track.

well, thats the point, for now I’ve just stick with my regular workflow. It’s simplier then program beats in phrase editor and then add a ghost tracks, for each situation :)

Yeah, that’s of course true. But you wouldn’t have to do that, when you for the final mix just clone the whole instrument (incl. the phrases), clone the track and delete everything but the kick. Of course this would still suck during the whole previous process.

Yeah, of course I totally get the point of seperate routings. I just doubt it’s gonna happen. On the other hand, actually rather this is going to happen, than exclusive instances of FX chains per track. :D

Your real problem seems to be, complex sound in your case also requires a complex setup. No matter how you turn it, shit is complicated and it’s not gonna change too much. :ph34r:

You guys wouldn’t have the sidechain problem, when you’d just trigger a OneShot-LFO with they kick key. All the routing problems would be gone in a minute…

Omg, it works, lol, the whole thread now can be closed, lol