Hi,
I’ll go straight to the point. Every time I’m here in the Renoise song forum and I see a new song posted with an exciting name, I click the link hoping not to get deluded by it, and I always am.
Not because of the song itself, you guys are amazing, but because it’s a damn link to Soundcloud.
Really? I’ve spend years surfing the depths of modarchive to find new music and be surprised each time by the masterful skills of the artists. Few things are comparable to listening to a new mod, fall in love with it and then dissect it, listen to it channel by channel, looping patterns, trying to learn new techniques, appreciate how the composer used to tool, grab all the tricks.
Renoise is the modern tracker, but the tracking ethics is gone. A Soundcloud link? Seriously? There are far larger places on the internet to promote your music. This is peculiar because, you see, it has the name of your favorite DAW right in the upper left corner. If you post a link to a Soundcloud page, I’m not even sure it’s been done in Renoise at all, I don’t know if you used some clever effect to obtain that crazy sound or if it’s a sample, I don’t know if that synth is a vst or the result of using in an amazing way the new Renoise 3 instruments. It’s not about “cheating”, it’s about “sharing”. If you want me to listen to your music, post it on reddit somewhere, or on your Facebook page. But if you post it here, it’d better be a Renoise file, so that we can actually talk about Renoise and Renoise techniques in the Renoise forum.
I think most people will trust each other in that the music posted here is actually done in Renoise? That said, many people will definitely have qualms about distributing their samples and instruments, in case they actually want not to? I think this deserves to be considered too (tracking ethics or not).
Btw: If you look in my signature, I’m linking to my latest track on soundcloud. And on that page, you can find a link to the xrns!! I like to spam the Renoise song format outside our little bubble
I use VST/VSTi, samples and other DAWs to achieve the final results that I share here.
What you seem to be suggesting is that I should use only Renoise, package the MOD and give it to you, or not post it here at all.
I understand that it’s nice to dissect a MOD file and see whats going on, no argument there. But to say, essentially, that unless it’s a MOD file then it has no place here
at all because this is the Renoise website… well, thats just plain wierd.
It’s an interest group really isnt it? We all dig Renoise and we use it to make our music either wholly or in part. I like to listen to what people have done with Renoise and, in turn, I share my output as well. It’s a creative community much like the Ableton fora or Cubase fora. We have something in common.
What it’s not is some sort of tracker-only-or-die kind of thing. Use 3 channels only or don’t post here… you know. It’s not that is it?
Why should people limit their workflow to suit you?
Nicely fitting into this discussion: It would be nice if there was some better way to share songs than via the forum. I heard that a better solution has been in place at some point (before I joined the community apparently), but was removed for some reason?
Totally agree with this - ethically speaking, I think it’s fine if Renoise has played some part in the creation of a song. Just because you shipped your song off to a mastering studio, or rewired it to Reaper you shouldn’t be prevented from sharing your music.
And there really are plenty of xrns being shared. Just not a 100% success-rate, in which every song you happen to like is ‘open source’
Plus it does not strike me as solely a place to openly share techniques and assets.
It might be a place where that happens, and thats great, but I don’t think you can expect it of people.
And, I might add, the OP has shared nothing. Does that matter? Essentially no, but might just be a factor when you consider telling people what they should and should not be expected to offer here for free.
Do you go on YouTube and ask people to post their AVID or Premiere project files, for ethical reasons, too?
Tracker ethics come from the BBS days where MOD was the smallest and most efficient way to distribute music over phone lines. It was also not CPU intensive which is what made them attractive.
The format pre-dates OGG and MP3 which I would argue are generally smaller than your average XRNS file. MP3 playback is also less intensive than XRNS all things considered.
I also don’t think you know what you are talking about. When I first saw Second Reality in 1993 I was so glad to have access to the sourcecode because of Demoscene ethics! Wait, that never happened. Instead, they released the sourcecode 20 years later.
The people who wrote the trackers did so to make music for their closed source demos. In these closed source demos there was music. The ethics of the MOD scene is a side effect of MOD being the most advanced way to distribute music over networks in the 90s, and not a moral standard.
Renoise is more of a DAW than of a tracker nowadays. It doesn’t have limitations of classic trackers e.g incapability of using plugins. How often do you see project files for songs made with FL or Ableton? Not really often, I guess.
I’m With you man I love dissecting tracks and I’ve had a great time sorting through stuff that is posted. The Hunz album that is posted on here did wonders in helping me understand renoise. I will say though that it shouldn’t be expected of any artist to post all of their work online. You aren’t entitled to it. So Thanks to those who do! Keep Rocking!
People are still uploading songs there and i mean 3/4 uploads a day.
Not that i suggest to start up a community there, but you could dump your Xrnx there and simply post the link here.
Unless a track is 100% Renoise native no plugins it usually doesn’t make sense to share the xrni. Not everyone has the same plugins, or even the same OS. And there are any number of other reasons someone might not want to share the xrni.
Some people do though, it’s not like nobody at all is sharing. I usually share the xrni when I post a song.
Might be fun to come up with a ‘General VST/VSTi’ list that, if you wanted, you could have installed and the community could use those plugins to make ‘community compatible’ MODs.
Theres just a ton of good freebies out there, and with a bit of care we could easily single out all the really excellent DSP of a particular type, then shortlist to avoid very close repetition of sonic character/functionality. Eventually a set of synths, samplers and effects could be made into a standard set.
Well even then, some of us are mac users, some of use are linux users. And we all have wildly varying styles of music that one set of vst’s may not be able to encompass.
Whoa, a reference to TiS. Still love it, but it is dead apart from a few old members and a rotating lineup of new people who return once or twice in a week and are never seen again.
You still have to be logged in there to download either MP3s or source files, though.
Speaking of TiS, this same discussion appeared on the boards over there several years ago. People griping about users uploading MP3s but not uploading source files.
All other arguments aside, if someone does not wish to share their source files, deal with it. It’s theirs to share or not, no explanations or excuses needed. I personally like to share source where it’s feasible, but sometimes source files are too big (I’ve got a LivePack source that’s 1.9 gigs, and that’s the trimmed-down version; the full version is too large for my file system ), or there are copyright and/or licensing issues with DAW, plugins, or samples.
Regardless, accept what people share and stop griping about what they’re not sharing.
I’m not sure that anything I do in Renoise is really that clever, which is the main reason I don’t upload my xrni files XD
I use pretty basic pattern effects, a lot of plugins, straightforward production techniques (which I mostly got from the tutorials on this forum) and basic music theory…Perhaps some kind of “pure tracker” thread on the forum / compo would be good ?
everytime I make a song which has no plugins in it, I also release the XRNS version. If you search for the word XRNS in this page, you will find all of them
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), or there are copyright and/or licensing issues with DAW, plugins, or samples.