Sound Quality Vs Gui

“Gaping holes in the data” and “not enough data” is far from the same thing (*) :)

Pitching up can result in aliasing, if high frequencies in the signal gets over
the limit X/2 (**) (X being the samplerate). Pitching down can not result in aliasing.

Also, aliasing isn’t necressarily assosiated with pitching anything up or down,
it’s a characteristic feature/problem of all sampled signals (not only audio).

An example of aliasing that I believe everybody has seen:

In a movie you usually have about 25-30 pictures a second.
This is indeed a samplerate! The difference from a movie to audio
is that you have a whole picture each frame instead of just one
samplevalue (per channel) in audio signals.

When wheels (ie on a car), or something else, rotate faster than 25/2 = 12.5
(ie X/2 in my post above) rounds per second, you will see the wheel
spinning backwards and/or at a different frequency than the original
wheel turned. This is aliasing. The name “alias” comes from the property
that one digital signal can have come from more than one real signal,
in other words: the digital discrete signal does not contain enough
information to uniquely identify how the original signal really was.

For example will a wheel rotation of 1 Hz and 26 Hz show up as 1 Hz
in a movie with 25 frames per second. 1 Hz and 26 Hz is thus alias
frequencies.

The same thing with audio, with 44100 Hz samplerate (frames per second),
original signals of 100 Hz and 44200 Hz will both result in a 100 Hz signal
in the digital sampled signal.

(*) There are many aspects to digital audio that’s is very complicated and
mathematical. There are lots of “intuitive” explanations around on the net,
and lots of people who “knows for sure” whatever they’ve read in a tutorial
written by a 14 year old boy who heard it from a friend and wrote it down
without understanding a word of it. Don’t trust the net. Be paranoid. :ph34r:
(Of course, then you shouldn’t believe me either…)

() X/2 is called the “Nyquist frequency” from the mathematician who
proved (
) this property of discrete (***) signals.

(***) Which is actually not very complicated to do.

(****) (*****) “Discrete” signals are “sampled” signals, ie a sequence of
numbers, as a contrast to “continuous” signals such as exists in the real
world. Your soundcard converts between digital, discrete, signals and
continuous analogue electrical thingy.

(*****) This is the last footnote. Promise.

(******) nice one martinal :D

Thanks Martinal. One of the great things about the internet is that you learn stuff from getting it wrong occasionally. :P Most of what you wrote was actually as I understood it, except for the “can’t alias pitching down” bit - was unaware of that, but it seems to make intuitive sense.

Actually you can alias by pitching down, but only when you start with a very high frequency.

It’s similar in principle as the ‘moire’ patterns you see when you overlay two sheets of sheer cloth with slightly different weaves; you can still discern the patterns regardless of which sheet is in front.

Say your sample rate is 48KHz, and your tone is 24KHz. If you lower that tone to 23KHz you get a strong 1KHz modulation of the original tone. The lower the original tone (relative to the sampling rate) the less noticeable the effect. A 12KHz tone lowered to 11.5 would be modulated at half the amplitude as a 24KHz tone lowered to 23.

Most of the time this isn’t a serious problem. Who after all can hear a 23KHz tone to notice a modulation? With sampling rates as high as 44.1 or 48KHz, the most noticeable aliasing occurs well outside the range of human hearing.

I am of course not an audio engineer; this is stuff I remember from physics classes, and I deal with it on a regular basis in my usual line of work, which is graphics. If you try scaling an image of a fine, repeating texture up or down, you’ll end up with a noticeable moire pattern.

Really? Can you explain why this happens in any way?

sorry for only reading the first 2 answers of this thread, but renoise is a tracker! a tracker! the people, who coding kontakt or any other vsti/vstfx do nothing than coding on their piece of software and optimizing and optimizing it all the time!
the renoise coders do a lot more! they have to handle much more things. don’t compare renoise with any vsti! the complexity is much bigger! renoise is a tracker with vst-host capability, vsti’s are just plugins, anyhow they are complex in itself or not. be happy to have renoise for your pleasure!

cya
:yeah:

edit: respects to martinal, for keeping the studio-guide alive!

Ah, yes of course. My mistake. Just goes to prove what I already said,
don’t trust people on the net who claim to know things. Including me :)

But that still doesn’t change this, does it? :
If you have a soundsample without aliasing problems, and all the frequencies
already are sufficiently below the Nyquist frequency (half the samplerate), then
when you downsample it to a lower frequency you can’t possibly get aliasing?

haven´t read what you have talked about here but have to say:

low frequencis are f****ed up in renoise…can´t really get out that cool shroomy whoopa whoopa fat ft2 sound a like stuff :confused:

otherwise renoise sound quality is brilliant…crystal clear, THANKS!

try a mono sinus 8-bit 8khz for shroomy whoopa whoopa fat

So the general feeling here would be if you want professional results for mastering you need to use an external sampler or vst sampler and just use Renoise to control & sequence the lot yes?.

Or…

Is it the case that when you render to WAV at the highest setting you get the perfect sound quality which is comparable to Kimplett etc?

some time ago I used cubase to mix my songs, because it simply helped to do mixing in a different environment. but now I just render my songs to wav, because the quality being achieved is great (if you know what you are doing and using your EQs right and all).

‘Sound Quality Vs Gui’ > SOUND Quality !
the GUI is allready nice :)

i also hope the new 1.5 and upcomming versions will be as stable as renoise 1.281 and dont use more cpu coz of the more flashy and moving tabs i noticed in an avi preview of 1.5…which i personally not really like…just hope it wont take too much of a performance hit.

ahwell, just release it allready 1.5 :) and ill dive deep :)

U guys allready rocked me!

mlon