too bad sampling works better than composing yourself.

Lovely background textures in this one, mostly side effects from the time stretching stuff.

Ok be honest for us, you’re writing the future soundtrack to the Invasion of Iran?

Man: You sit here, dear.
Wife: All right.
Man: Morning!
Waitress: Morning!
Man: Well, what’ve you got?
Waitress: Well, there’s egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam;
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam…
Waitress: …spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam…
Vikings: Spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!
Waitress: …or Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there’s spam egg sausage and spam, that’s not got much spam in it.
Wife: I don’t want ANY spam!
Man: Why can’t she have egg bacon spam and sausage?
Wife: THAT’S got spam in it!
Man: Hasn’t got as much spam in it as spam egg sausage and spam, has it?
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam… (Crescendo through next few lines…)
Wife: Could you do the egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam then?
Waitress: Urgghh!
Wife: What do you mean ‘Urgghh’? I don’t like spam!
Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Waitress: Shut up!
Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings! You can’t have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.
Wife: I don’t like spam!
Man: Sshh, dear, don’t cause a fuss. I’ll have your spam. I love it. I’m having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam beaked beans spam spam spam and spam!
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Waitress: Shut up!! Baked beans are off.
Man: Well could I have her spam instead of the baked beans then?
Waitress: You mean spam spam spam spam spam spam… (but it is too late and the Vikings drown her words)
Vikings: (Singing elaborately…) Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam! Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam. Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Spam spam spam spam!

This is a big improvement, samples or no samples, this is where it’s at if you are going to explore this style.

Way less cheesy, way more sinister and bizarre.

Maybe play around with the depth of the instruments, the orchestra can move from back to the front an arena for example, time stretching, pitch bending, echo bursts on the classical instruments, like you are doing with the vocals, keep it subtle, it would demonstrate some finesse and control on the instrumentation. Etc.

But yeah, killer stuff. It’s growing on me.

ooh yes that was wicked, smooth soundtrack

thanks for the kind words, guys! I still don’t like the fact I didn’t make
the orchestral bits tho… am considering to do more playful things with
those samples… maybe next time I’ll sample myself and see where that
will take me… hopefully not too far from this, because this feels more
coherent as opposed to the previous attempt.

This music is like gonzo- journalism. I don’t care much for Iran. ;)

great stuff.

and don’t fret about sampling because you simply can never get a PC to sound like a real orchestra. Let’s just say you have four cellos playing the same note legato over and over… One sample on the PC always is the same. In reality the small timing-differences between the four players makes the sound change. The way they hold their bow, the consistency of their movement, the way they hold the instrument infront of the mic …

It really took me a few years and actually led to some kind of “musical depression” to realize that there are certain boundaries with software. One time I spent like 2 days trying to make a bassline playing the same note as 8th-staccato, I tried every plugin I could get my hands on, used all kind of tricks and gimmicks … just to call a friend in the end and get a bassline 15 mins later which was really alive and better than anything I could have done with software. I also need some classical sounds at the moment for this soundtrack I do and I became so fed up with the soundfonts I have … either they stretch one sample over several halfnotes so you can’t play a-b-a-b because it is the same sample, or the single samples are of such low quality (f.e. one being much louder than the other one etc.) that it’s not working either.

My advice really is : get over it. Either find an orchestra that can play your sketches or start going into a direction where you are sampling creatively.
Although I could give you some tips how to get some better sounding stuff if you are interested, I have been down that road before and think I pushed some limits.

Really enjoyable. You made something out of those samples. If you want to have a good choir-vst you might want to check out magnus choir vsti which has some really nice sounds.

Thanks looza!

But I will not get over it. The stuff I sampled in this track WAS MADE
WITH SOFTWARE. The lack of satisfactory I get from sampling is huge.
I made this track in two days, the previous one in two weeks.

I suggest you listen Nobuo Uematsu’s soundtrack to Advent Children.
Everything is software, from the orchestral, to the choirs, to the guitars
and it sounds more real than Global Warming. I may never succeed to
get something similar, but I will not give up.

I don’t like sampling, I’m using other people’s labour to spice my own…
The only reason I can forgive myself is because I’m still trying to do it myself.

Marc Shake: Cheers! I have Magnus Choir actually, am using it quite often.
There are way sicker plugs out there, but considering its size and all, it’s very
decent soundwise, especially works great in combination with industrial-like
sounds because of its raw nature and loud character.

I’d go on a rant here about commonplace grandiose delusions surrounding the need to legitimatize one’s work though complete creative independence vs the reality of the creative process (followed by some analogy similar to “reinventing the wheel”), but I’m pretty sure the mere implications in this post should be enough of a spark to induce constructive thought on the matter.

What? I just wanna die happy, knowing I did all I could to make the music I want to make.
I don’t care about wheels, processes and delusions of independance, let alone constructive thoughts.

Are you absolutely sure the track you sampled from was made with software? And what you actually mean by “software” ? Taking different loops and phrases played by real people and arranging them together is not what I was talking about. With software I mean Soundfonts, Soundlibraries and similar.

and about “using other peoples labour” : That’s why I said “creative sampling”. Dunno what you had in mind.

There’s nothing wrong with sketching your ideas down using software, then following through and getting musicians to play out the parts. In fact, it’s less than wrong, it’s the right thing to do.

Craftsmanship, where you are good at doing what you want, versus art, where you are successful at accomplishing an idea by any means necessary.

Choose art, you have the talent.

in my book art uses craftsmanship as a tool to accomplish its goal, but is seperated from pure craftsmanship by it’s unique ideas and goals.

quite simply put : if you want to paint a picture (no matter if classic or abstract) you need to know how to handle your tools (canvas, brushes, colours etc.)

with that said I know why BotB is frustrated, because he can’t “handle it’s tools”, now the question is if he should find other ways to express himself or simply change (or better expand) his tools.

I can only agree with conner, if you really want to pursue this further the best way would be to get some instrumentalists to work for you.

PS:On a sidenote, as a graphics-designer I tend to do anything that should resemble some “real world effect” in the real world. I made a poster some time ago for some people who asked me if I would be able to do an image with sheets of paper and a red cord running through them in my software, especially important to them was that it looked “real”. They had tried themselves but couldn’t do it. After I was finished laughing we glued sheets to a piece of paper, took a real red cord and glued it on and finally I just scanned the whole thing and sent it to the printer. I hope this kinda explains my angle here, I don’t see a sense in recreating something “real” in a digital way unless I really, really have to, especially if your whole idea/goal is centered around it. 99% of the time it will look/sound digital and not real enough and the one percent you actually manage to do it will involve an effort in time that is ridiciously higher than the amount it would have taken to simply do in the real world and scan/record it.
I think computers should be used to do the images/sounds you can’t do in the real world at all.

But apparently you do care about those things, because you’re fretting over the fact that you’re not “making sounds” by yourself. My point was simply that people worry about stuff like this too much. If we all had to build our own synthesizers from scratch before we were considered “legitimate” electronic musicians, nobody would bother, and the art of electronic music would die. Seem a bit extreme? So is feeling bad because you use samples. The foundation of the electronic music movement is based almost 50/50 on samples and synthesizers… both of which could be considered “cheating” if you consider things like presets on synths… but in reality, who the heck gives a shit? Music is nothing, if not a collage of things we’ve taken from around us, and molded into a representation of our dreams/ideas/fears/emotions/views/whatever. Your music has it’s own arrangement, it’s own structure, it’s own context and vision… so who cares what resources you used to create it? Painters buy paint, brushes, and canvas… they don’t make it themselves. And even though some may, the rest aren’t expected to, because that would be sheer lunacy. It’s not the tools we use, it’s the finished product that matters.

Then do just that, and stop concerning yourself with silly thoughts like “samples are cheating!” :P

I understand all your points, guys… maybe I’m too much concerned about artistic integrety or whatever… maybe I just fear using samples…
Maybe I’m still too young to understand the relativity of music production… I guess my problem is that I know what I want and don’t have the means to do it, like looza already mentioned.

Oh well, it’s a long journey and it’s about time I move on. Thank you very much for all your input!! It’s very much appreciated!!

Hey perhaps OT but: have any of you guys heard Philip Glass orchestral adaptation of the track “lcct Hedral” by Aphex Twin? It’s every bit as chilling as the original composition…


Well BotB, if you want to create orchestral music, but are concerned about artistic integrity, then perhaps you should train classically for a few years, and buy a bunch of string instruments so you can make the sounds yourself :)

… I still insist, however, especially in the case of orchestral electronic music, that you don’t lose artistic integrity for using samples.

final version