The Anti-feature

I don’t get why everyone wants features added to Renoise. I think we should start removing features, so as to stay true to the core values of the community. We come from a background of Protracker-using 8bit demostyle producers, and I think Renoise should reflect that aesthetic. Adding features to Renoise only makes it more useful, like other software, and that means we’re getting more mainstream. If we start removing features now, we can revel in the limitations of our obscure underground software package, and become artistic gods as a result.

I implore you Taktik, won’t you please think of our roots a bit more instead of catering to the major influx of new users, who are obviously oblivious to the ways of the demoscene? They just want better tools because they have no musical skills, and are trying to make up for it by abusing effects and the shiniest new plugins with all the gretest presets. Everyone knows that professional musicians never use presets. NEVER.

The last thing I want to see happen to Renoise is for it to turn into a piece of mainstream software… then we’re going to get nothing but noobs on these forums that want beat slicers (SO THEY CAN CHEAT) and make nothing but bad IDM with stupid time signatures.

So please, close the Ideas & suggestions forum. We know what we want, that’s why we use Renoise. In fact, we want even less of it, so please start removing all the pointless CPU hogging features like VST support. Maybe you can open a Feature Removal Suggestions forum so that we can discuss this topic more.

After reading your first alinea I was kinda hoping you were being sarcastic. Why is evolution bad? If you don’t like the new features you can always use older versions of Renoise, or even go back to 8-bit Protracker. I fail to see your point…

Renoise should be striving towards the perfection of Pro-tracker. It was so profoundly demoscene… we should be headed in that direction. Just think: Without VSTs, 4k demo makers could write a playback engine for Renoise songs.

That’s what I mean… this community just doesn’t see the possibilities.

Live is change. See in the future and catch new ideas and dont look back and dream of things that are more blocking nature.

Renoise is ready for future.

BUT WHAT ABOUT MY SIDECHAINING?!

now I’ll have to go searching for who pissed you off by shooting down one of your suggestions.

I got the perfect solution for you ;)
http://www.renoise.com/download/archive/Renoise_1_1_1.exe

Has most of the less features that you don’t want.

To be honest: yeah a musician had to be creative with a tracker and with samples… a good set of samples and the right pattern effect commands could create great ideas…
But honestly:8 bit -> i would never desire to work with 8 bit anylonger.
Also, with the newer features, more experiments can be made…
Creativity comes from the mind, the true tracker will always try to invent new tricks, it still happens with Renoise as well.

Terrible.

Renoise is moving in the right direction, at the appropriate speed, with the appropriate vision.

Suggestions like these are appreciated, because it reminds people to stay grounded, so I applaud your sincerity, but the pendulum isn’t swinging back any time soon.

Maybe MilkyTracker shares the same values as you? Buzz is back and active as ever, too. Renoise isn’t a monopoly on trackers.

I’m really not feeling this one. Every step Renoise has taken has made it better. Period. I really don’t see why judgment of the devs and the community as a whole warrants criticism.

This is one of the most pointless posts I have ever read on these boards. First off, the reason they add new features and want to go more “mainstream” is to gain a larger market so they can make more money. The great support from the staff does not even make it an issue in my eyes. I know I bought a quality product. Second, if you were a talented musician then it wouldn’t matter what program you use. Not everyone uses Renoise and you don’t speak for everyone and what they want from a Tracker. Everyone finds a different use for them and not everyone takes advantages of the same features. If you don’t like the new features then don’t upgrade. And your worried about shitty IDM being made? Don’t listen to it then. There is a ton of shitty breakcore being made with Renoise as YOU know. Work on your craft and don’t worry about the shit around you.

It’s ridiculous how pretentious people can be even when they are NOTHING themselves in the music scene.
:angry:

Damnit byte smasher …you sound like one of those analogue nazis …
Let renoise evolve in whatever it has to be …based on community /forum exchanging ideas and stuff…You ve must a been a newbie too, once ?
I bought renoise One year ago …and I think the direction it’s heading is absolutely fabulous …!!!
But I get your drift …it’s just …the feeling of Renoise becoming not that exclusive anymore …
So if in a couple of years …when renoise has that huge oversized pianorol, the pattern editor removed for a dancing fruity figure ( so verry important ) …You can always go back to renoise 2.0

I’m making music with trackers since 1996 and I want a beatslicer and a pianoroll.

Can someone help me?

Apparently I need to watch more Colbert. My satire is apparently nowhere near over the top enough. HOW CAN YOU GUYS EVEN BEGIN TO TAKE THIS OUTLANDISH THREAD SERIOUSLY?!?!

epic facepalm

Uh yah… I don’t believe a word of what I said in my first two posts. This thread was created specifically as satire of all the people who keep knocking down simple feature requests.

Yeah, read more satire. Good for you. Practice makes an evolution, too. <_<

Even though it was satire, I think it had one important point:

External playback engines in games/demos.

It would be nice to see that aspect of the oldschool tracking world come to Renoise. It only supports a few of the major mod formats, doesn’t it?

edit: I just tried Renoise 1.1 . It’s nice to see how in some ways, parts of it have never changed, but in other respects it has. I.e. my mouse cursor seems to work in the later versions ;)

today I read this guy here: http://www.renoise.com/board/index.php?showtopic=20309#
and then he made me laugh when I read this topic. I sounds as if he just wanted to get attention. I think having a retro/lofi/original-recipe/vintage renoise version focused on the demoscene could be a great idea but I remember when I was using protracker or oktalyzer on my amiga and dreamed about how trackers could be in the future. Just because then ('92) I was just trying to make good music (some day I’ll do heh), not thinking to make 8bit/4channel/22Khz music forever. Renoise is more than I then dreamed and those limited trackers were a thing of the past.
You know this is not (only) a toy, but a great music tool and that’s the way it’s evolved always.
but I repeat, it would be great to have a demo-scene-oriented version (just to keep the same UI).

ok byte smasher, as I don’t know you I was thinking of you as a crazy.
still, a demoscene version would be great

wtf? I fifn’t know fast-reply would be added to my last reply and not as a new one
whatever…

I think Renoise should be looking into the future and take the lead as newschool tracking software. Why spend valuable time wrestling with dinosaurs? Hopefully the ReWire feature will help further to wash out the (flawed) concept of the tracker experience as a self-contained universe which can be mastered only by oldschool demoscenish nerds.

A modern tracker should be the means – the proper tool – for ANY chosen musical and/or auditive end. Not just the means to a specific type or form of music (such as demoscene, chiptunes, games, whatever).

Renoise Demoscene version:
-Load Renoise 2.1
-Drag and drop all your samples from your external explorer into Renoise.
-Each sample will be loaded as instrument.
-Manually do all the loops and finetuning, Keep NNA to NoteCut
-Hide all panning and volume columns, don’t use more than one effect column
-Start tracking by manually inserting notes and apply only effect commands
-Keep doing until satisfied with results
-Save song
-Write XRNS player engine
-Use all results in demo.

What you don’t use, does not wastes resources either.
I bet you can still use Renoise this way on a 800Mhz pc (if the CPU supports SSE, that is the only current requirement).

old-school song speed , no-reverse effect, no render to track, save as .mod or other retro formats and tons of other things could be implemented to travel trough time backwards. It’s like a good text editor, you could save a .doc as a txt and just use courier new as default font but it won’t be the same as using vii, ultraedit or whatever…

Honestly, if anyone wants an “oldschool” version of Renoise, check out MilkyTracker. It’s got all the speed and stability, 1/4 the calories, and it saves oldschool mod formats.

It looks great, thank you!!

haha. funny shit, board-psycho :)
… though i admit i didn’t get the satire at first either…