FLStudio does have it’s ups and downs, just like reason (and every other program). So I think it’s funny that everyone always points their finger at FL when it comes to making fun of productions. In that same case, reason sucks cause it doesn’t support DX/VST plugins.
I’m defending FL since that was the program that got me into production, so someone’s gotta represent (even if I barely use it anymore). But I personally know a bunch of artists that use FL and make excellent productions.
I have to say…FruityLoops has the best piano roll there is.It has a rocking LFO function. The chord and arpegiator functions were awsome too.
I dont use it now, but it still has a thumbs up from me.
If and when we get proper zoom functionality to adjust sub-tick commands (especially notes and note offs) we’ll propably get rid of all this piano roll talk
The main (and in my opinion only) advantage of piano roll over tracker pattern view is that editing sub tick commands is efficient. With Renoise in it’s current form it’s either inefficient (delay column) or impossible. Working with tpb of 16 for example is not very nice.
Seriously, I’m amazed people are so against the piano roll.
I’ve been using trackers since 1994 so I’m not a Fruitynoob by any means.
I used Cubase from 2001-2005 because I had a lot of MIDI gear at the time and I found the Pianoroll frustrating for most things, but for editing chords it was brilliant, and I miss it.
A piano roll in renoise would:
allow you to transpose chords easily with just click and drag
allow you to move ‘broken selections’ of notes over time or pitch with ctrl-click and drag
give you a very useful visual overview of your notes
The more I have thought about this over time and view PR as a secondary editing tool, the more I agree and see I would use it in renoise. Not invisaging relative pitch, is a trackers shortfall/ trade-off IMO, for the benefits we are all aware of. The PR offers some neat editing tricks aswell (some of the teritory which the advanced editor in renoise trys to cover, but extra also)
I could see, still using pattern editor primarily for input, and PR for relevant edits and occasional overview.
Having a piano roll (or equivilant of) would allow the option for notes and patterns to be drawn into a editor by the mouse, enabling the ability to pull notes and note lengths about. Renoise at the moment only allows notes to be typed in or played in via midi. I think the expansion for more pattern and editing options the better!
The whole point is that it’s a tracker – that’s the main selling feature. Without that, what is it? A capable, inexpensive DAW that also happens to have an optional tracker interface? Lame! I think that the Undisputed King of Motherfucking Trackers sounds better.
If I wanted a piano roll I’d use Live, Logic or Reaper. It’s a niche market – ever wonder why none of the other DAWs have a tracker interface?
i hate it when people say the tracker interface allows for less creativity than a piano roll… no its your fucking brain!
personally, i could see piano rolls being useful for keeping songs in key…
Lets say you put in a riff “tracker style”. Then you could switch to the piano roll for that particular pattern, and you can use that as a guidline for your chord placement etc.
The only thing i’m worried abt if we get a p roll is that it just won’t suit the rest of renoise… visually
Exactly. The reason I’ve used Renoise exclusively for the past 5 years is because it’s a tracker.
I love trackers, started out with them, tried everything else and ended up back with trackers.
All we’re saying is that a pianoroll would be a very useful tool, just like the mixer view, automation tab, and pattern matrix is. FT2 didn’t have those features did it?
Tracker patterns are total undisputed champions for programming rhythms, effect tricks, mangling samples and laying down monophonic melodies and basslines. But when you start to get into complex chord arrangements with 8+ notes being triggered at once, an optional pianoroll that you could flick open would be a godsend.
As someone who has more or less worked with a piano roll since I started making music back in the early 90s I wouldn’t mind seeing one. But it’s by no means a deal-breaker. I love Renoise as it is and it doesn’t need a roll, but it could certainly come in handy at times, some of which have been mentioned above. So yeah sure why not, it’s just another editing tool for the arsenal, nothing to raise hell about.
Fruityloops IS better than Renoise in some areas, such as timestretching and granular synthesis. FL on my end has been reduced down to another instrument though. (though a resource hog)
The one thing that could take things to new heights is a Buzz adapter.
We know this. You’re missing the point.
A pianoroll is a visual aid, an alternative view of the same note data where new edit operations are possible such as broken selections.
the piano layout of notes i irrational as well! uniform layout ftw!
but i think it would be nice if the piano guys for once had a interface where the piano roll is actually horizontal instead of the super weird vertical scrolling.
The main reason I switched to Renoise was to get away from the piano roll.
But if it implemented a piano roll-like interface that didn’t require painstaking and RSI-inducing mouse dragging operations (I’m looking at you, Live), it could potentially be useful for those grandiose string arrangements.
Renoise offers much more than just a tracker interface. A very efficient audio
engine for one, the very high standard of coding for second. It feels like
hardware - just as solid and tight, yet without usual hw limitations. Adding
pianoroll editor will make it even better. However there are other things
worth improving too, so it doesn’t have to be a major priority.
Forgive me all who really want a piano roll, however, I just don’t get it! Surely you just enter the notes and that’s it no?
Maybe I am wrong, however, one of the points of using Renoise is that its a tracker not a sequencer, right?
I really am trying to understand it…on your computer keyboard you can play the notes directly…come up with something you like, then enter it in…you then you see the notes represented as d-4, g-3 etc…simple-done-finished.
You don’t even have to come up with something you like…just enter the notes and fix it til you like it…I am not sure however would piano roll involve a mouse?
I think the problem is that you assume too much how other people work. Like everyone only want to sit down with their computer keyboard and enter some notes.
Try to record something with a midi keyboard for instance,play chords and stuff, and look at the mess in the pattern editor. Musically it does not tell you anything really before you read and analyze all the text entered. In a PR you can instantly see what is going on. Hence it is much easier to spot problems etc. It is also much easier to select notes by pitch, and to resize notes and so on. To me it would mostly be a tool to alter existing notes. Not to enter new notes.
Just wanted to say that having a piano roll is a very nice feature to have. I mean come on ppl, what the fuck? Is piano roll the devil that could destroy your workflow because your ‘QWERTY-stuck-in-the-nineties-proFT2/IT-mind’ cannot possibly imagine seeing something that would make your precious Renoise look more like a program called ‘Fooply Ring Studio’? [s]“Damnit, I keep touching that dumbass piano roll. IT HURTS THE SONG IN MY BRAIN.”
[/s]Everyone who has used a tracker in their life know’s how to use Renoise, though it may not be obvious for the n00b. That’s where the piano roll comes in. It makes Renoise more approachable for the curious outsiders, the ‘mouse’ loving crowd. That’s just neat, right? Even some tracking veterans out there who completely dislike the ‘proven’ way to enter notes totally endorse the idea of having a piano roll. It’s just another way of entering notes with a new interface. “But there’s nothing difficult about using the damn keyboard!” I hear ppl saying. Yes, that may be true but we must not forget that officially tracking is… hmm how should I say this… DEAD??? Gasp, did I just say such a FOUL thing? Why yes, yes I did. It’s dead in the world of professional musicians that is.
The n00bs, the new generation we are speaking of are only attracted to programs made popular by the media or music celebrities. If it makes Renoise better, why not? You can always choose not to use it if you don’t want to. It is thanks to Renoise that tracking is starting to earn name again. Slowly but surely it’s breaking through as we speak. Adding popular features like a piano roll may bloat Renoise for some, but we must not forget that it will allow Renoise to grow, too. One step at a time.
So yes, there is a point in having a piano roll in Renoise. And if you don’t like it, well, then don’t use it. Simple as that, right?
