A scenario that happens to a lot of people who ask questions here–these types of responses can be found ALL over the board for a whole slough of different type of questions from different users, especially new users that don’t have all the Renoise-specific tracker-terminology down:
X = random user asking questions
BLAH = The specific person who doens’t listen to questions enough to answer them right who won’t ask for the details they require to understand
Z = One way to do things
N = Another way to do things
G-I = completely unrelated
X: I’ve found that I don’t like doing things like Z and I can’t find an option to do it like N like I’m used to. Is there a way?
BLAH: Sure, it’s easy. Just do it like Z.
X: But I already said I don’t want to do it like Z.
BLAH: Oh, in that case, do it like this instead.
X: What do you mean?
BLAH: Just try G, maybe J, and don’t forget I.
X: Maybe you didn’t understand me, I’m trying to do N and I don’t want to do Z.
BLAH: Have you tried H? The G and H options help most users in that area. We’re really proud of options G and H.
X: Maybe you didn’t understand me, I’m trying to do N and I don’t want to do Z.
BLAH: Well then do it like Z. You shouldn’t have any problem with that, should you? (then sometimes followed by an inappropriately timed joke in poor taste)
I can understand the frustration, people never answering what you want… But what you need to concider, even tho BLAH is obviously avoiding the N-option as a whole, maybe it’s because somebody found a better way of doing things? And that spending a little time adapting to Z might be a good idea after all?
ex: FT2/RNS-way of using space for rec/stop. I hated the RNS-way, but decided to try it out anyway, and now love it.
But overall: Valid problem for those who encounter this. Not every “helpful” response really helps.
Yeah, I’m BLAH now, and I say:
Many times it’s about people not being able to think outside their routines. f. ex. when the title says FT-like, all the FT2-idiots come here and whine about how Renoise does not work like FT2. What can you say? This is Renoise, you no-brain monkey.
I am not saying there ain’t bs around, but sometimes you just can’t do the N. Then you have to do the Z.
It could well be put this way around:
Which would mean exacly what I wrote. When you migrate, surroundings change. RTFM and live with it.
this has made me angry also, enuff to totally flame ppl over it. then realize i was too harsh and a jerk. as a matter of fact ive been trying to find a question/post you guys would label stupid, that i wrote a few days ago about automation. but apparentally it was removed…worst thing is even tho it had some pretty stupid questions (after i looked deeply into the manual) i neer had the ability to find out if renoise would ever implement the automation features i was asking about. so guess what, that 1 deleted post will become 2
when ppl ask questions:
“i give them what they need to understand how & where to get more information, simply tell them the answer or keep my mouth shut”
remember if no one answers stupid & lazy questions then eventually the person who wrote it will figure it out, or rephrase the question with a well thought out post, even when ppl reply with “i dont understand your question” that will make them think about what they are doing.
cuz when you give some ignorant answer like RTFM. you are only letting a possible lazy person make -you- look like a totally jaded asshole that will -never deserve- an answer to any question that ever comes from you.
these ppl that are just begining, more than likely would have read the F***ing manual if they understood the terms. on top of it, they probably would not be trying to use renoise if they didnt have some form of intellect to start with (they would be using something more “draw a sound/paint music friendly”)
so basically the moral of the story is “if you can help, then do so. if you do not want to help, please keep your f****ing mouth shut”.
i want a good renoise community that helps ppl, not turn them away!
Amen.
Although any kind of regular helpful activity does not ensure you any kind of respect in this forum, unless you are some bantai or IT-Alien with 1000+ posts. And what’s more, new users are often totally ingored. I’ve seen it happen, even if they do not deserve it with their behaviour. But that’s offtopic.
It’s just pretty simple…
If N can’t be done, say so, if there are other tricks to reach the same instead, say so. If you know other tricks but are not sure if N can really be done, say that you want to leave this particular question open to someone else who can tell wether yes/no or how N can be done or what tricks can be used to achieve N results.
About the RTFM thing… moderators and board admins do their best to supply links to the pages that may contain an answer upon questions that are probably unnessesary to post on the forums.
However, users may not understand the answer there, or for some other reason didn’t accomplished to find it.
Do not flame ppl that the answer is in the manual, just give them the answer and point out where they can find it.
If the user really didn’t understood the point it will become clear in the upcoming replies anyway.
I appreciate help, and others appreciate help. I’m sorry I didn’t understand why you thought I was just using the cursor keys, and I’m sorry you took offense when I tried to clarify myself.
I’ve been trying to learn message board ettiquitte and I’m terrible at it–I’d think after 18 years of doing message boards on BBS’s and the internet I’d figure out that all those message boards that banned me had banned me for a reason. I need to learn to leave posts alone that don’t make sense and not try to figure them out. I need to learn to always respond as if I’m in a truly joyful mood. I need to learn to not post anything if it is a complaint unless it’s a message board that is soley for complaining about things. These things seem to be unacceptable on all message boards, and I will try in the future to consider these things before participating anymore.
I’ve definately learned not to report bugs anymore because 9/10 of the time the authors or testers will try to claim it’s not a bug until there’s irrefutable proof of otherwise, and by then I’ve made myself look like an asshole. This is definately not the first place that’s happened to me.
So, I will try to leave this board alone or at least as much as I can. I really need to leave all message boards alone–I think I’m an addict, 'cause I’ll waste 8 hours straight without eating in front of them, wording new posts and re-wording messages I’ve already posted.
Kizzume: The general idea is: Don’t be a bitch! I mean, it’s really that simple. Oh, and track more instead of posting. That usally gets more things done.
Kizzume, don’t be so hard on yourself. I haven’t seen your posts as offensive…
When it comes to bugs, probably most of them are not bugs, cannot be reproducable or have been reported before, so more or less all of us have looked like idiots when reporting bugs. It’s probably pretty frustrating for the devs too, that have to post responses to the same things over and over again or to get questioned why they never fixed bugs they couldn’t find.
X: i think this forum needs a thread where everyone types their posts as theatric dialogue between two theretical characters.
BLAH: indeed, it would create a sort of sam beckett style absurdist sheek which would no doubt draw much attention from stimulus starved losers in their basements at four in the mourning.
X: perhaps if we play our cards right we can even use our complex powers to wow members of the opposite sex who are in possession of moderate quantities of genuine sex appeal.
BLAH: racy! hey, didn’t i meet you in “Godel, Escher, Bach” by Doug Hofstader?
X: no i’m sorry, you must have me confused with someone else.
I mean, it’s really that simple. Oh, and track more instead of posting. That usally gets more things done.
