While We're On The Topic Of "random"

Earlier IRC conversation:
(parts were removed because I felt like it)
I’ve got an idea for renoise
which would kick some ass
there should be a column in each track
for probability of note played
renoise would generate a random # between 00 and FF, and if the number was below the value the user entered, the note would play
this would allow people to make dense arpegs that changed over time
higher probabilities would go on notes that fell closer to the main chords… lower probabilities on the dischord notes
I think it would be cool
apparently noone else does
i’ll go die now
“no kth bye”

  • BYTE-Smasher dies
    not that the idea isn’t good man
    it would be useful imo
    but i don’t think it’s going to work if anyone got one lil idea like that
    they should improve the midi in renoise
    it would be good for creating beats too
    you know my point about random.
    you like it? or not?
    i hate the concept of random
    i just hate this concept
    and i must admit
    i must admit!!!
    I love the concept of random
    i finally think glitch is cool l i v e
    random is something you do with your finger
    not with algos

So there we go.

note inst vol pan prob effect
C-4 01-- – 80 ----

probability of h80 would be 50% chance of triggering that note

I know everyone’s going to hate this idea, but look at it for it’s merits please. It could make lives easier in many ways.

Take the following example… assuming the instrument is a hihat:
C-4 01 40 – F0 ----
C-4 01 10 – 20 ----
C-4 01 20 – 60 ----
C-4 01 10 – 20 ----
C-4 01 40 – F0 ----
C-4 01 10 – 20 ----
C-4 01 20 – 60 ----
C-4 01 10 – 20 ----

This would create an interesting hihat loop where the main hihat hits, which play at the loudest volume, trigger 94% of the time, while the secondary hits, which are only half as loud as the main hits trigger 38% of the time. The extra hits in the middle add a bit of spice… but only at 1/4 volume… and only 13% of the time.

The other thing is, the random seeds would have to be linked to the song position, so you’d get the same results with the same position in the song, every time.

You might be saying “why the heck would I want to induce randomness in my tracks?!”… but just think abuot the possibilities for a second. Something like this could add some variation to tracks that otherwise would have to be done by hand. It’s only as silly as the humanize function IMO, and as far as I’m concerned, could be MORE useful than humanizing volumes ;)

To be honest, such randomness is a thing that i would not need in static compositions.
It’s not hard for me to just set the editstep to the related line-skip rate and then manually pump in some random volume values in the volume column. And with a Hihat this works neat enough without fancy algorithms.

Randomness can be overdone you know?
You might loose grip on reality because of it.

This is why I no longer do drugs :P

Everything can be overdone in a song; strings, drums, volume too loud on this, too low on that.

I actually like Byte’s idea, there are many times I’ve sat there and tried to “draw” a melody on renoise, and it didn’t turn out the way i wanted it to be, but into something completely different, but way cooler than what I had in mind!
It was just a random thing that happened.
Having an option like byte suggested may help you create drum beats you’ve never even heard before.
And that’s cool. That’s original.
Dunno about you guys, but I’m kinda “stuck”, I mean, when you work on songs on your own you end up in a bubble: You always start with the same note, the same chord (this is me im talking about, not you, you could be normal for all i know) and the same drum beats, over and over and over. This is where the random-feature would help: some new fuzz in the song, some new ideas. Something to break the pattern.

Yeah… Randomness can be overdone… but controlled randomness is the basis for alot of things. Like procedural textures… chemistry… physics… the universe… chaos may bring insanity, but structured chaos is the basis of all natural and beautiful.

I think this would be better implemented as a VSTi instrument - one that merely edits the incoming midi-stream - rather than cluttering the Renoise interface.

Well, that would be decent I guess… but such a VST instrument would be kinda difficult to program… it would need to consist of a sampler and a VSTi loader or something

ya know what i like about this idea.

the seeds being linked to song position, could mean it would geberate the same amounts of probability each time through.

which means this is not true randomness, but programmed.
more like improvisation.

so technically this idea Is docked to reality! :D

Structured chaos isn’t chaos… if you look at the basic buildingblocks for Mandelbrot’s Fractal output, they are very very simple, actually no chaos is to be found in them. And if you assemble shapes and forms of them in a certain pattern, it is still not chaos. It is complex though, but not chaos.
It becomes chaos if you kick it into pieces.

Who said anything about fractals? I was reffering more to things like perlin noise and such… which ARE based on statistically random number generators… and can create some very beautiful things…

clicking on the link, listening to the outcome, you can actually hear that it’s not.

Some equations excel at things which others do not.