"WIP" (they annoy me)

Indeed. I agree and it can be frustrating.

As a general rule, i assume that most people fear upsetting an artist when you ask for their opinion on music (or anything creative for that matter).

Most don’t realize that criticism can really help someone improve their work, and that criticism far out ways any personal feelings or attachments to the piece of music. Hence the request for an opinion. I think this seems to be generally something only artists/musicians understand.

As long as my music was traditional instrument related and composed well, my father would like it. He is a guitarist and his taste is not too bad. My mother however, really likes Celine Dion. If she likes my music, that would be the time to give up. :smashed:

I’ve tried to get friends and family to listen to my music. With the exception of one person, what I do is not what they generally like. That’s fine. What I try to get from them is more general comments on overall production. Does it sound murky? Too bright? Unbalanced?

Even then it’s hard to get feedback.

Even when I get feedback it tends to be couched in what the listener knows. For someone to tell me a song of mine reminds them of Led Zep is just weird, but that’s his frame of reference. When I tell him I was shooting for a Contortions/Lounge Lizards/No Wave vibe I get a blank stare. (Who knows; there might very well be some Led Zeppelin aspect in there that I don’t hear because I’m not that into them.)

The one friend who’s opinion I trust really likes what I’m doing, so I’m OK.

You can’t twist anyone’s arm into giving feedback, and if they’re not into it then what they have to say might end up being polite lip-service. I tell them because they’re close to me. I don’t want any of them complaining, “Why didn’t you tell me you were releasing music?”

My mother however, really likes Celine Dion. If she likes my music, that would be the time to give up. :smashed:

Unless you write music for Celine Dion…

Unless you write music for Celine Dion…

Since we’re talking about our Mom’s and how they feel about our music I’ll share.

My Mom seems to think that when my Dad and I are working on music(very rare) it must mean we’ve ran out of ‘important’ things to do. The second the volume goes up she’ll barge in with questions about dinner, errands, chores ect ect.

I asked her the night before to just let Dad and I have some space because he’s leaving town and we’re low on time. I tried to stop her from interrupting and she gave us our space, but made sure my Dad knew she wasn’t happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLGGqDfBnj8

@SynthisterNation: Well, it could also mean she feels left out. You and your dad is doing something close to eachother that she doesn’t know anything about. And since she feels responsible for the household the only way she can get in is to let you two know, in her eyes, all important things that needs to get done.

I’m not saying anyone is wrong, just that we all see things from different perspective. This is a whole other topic involving psychology and is way too heavy for a Renoise-forum, I think. :wink:

My mother?

@SynthisterNation: Well, it could also mean she feels left out. You and your dad is doing something close to eachother that she doesn’t know anything about. And since she feels responsible for the household the only way she can get in is to let you two know, in her eyes, all important things that needs to get done.

I’m not saying anyone is wrong, just that we all see things from different perspective. This is a whole other topic involving psychology and is way to heavy for a Renoise-forum, I think. :wink:

Very perceptive, I would say that is a very likely assumption.

I have a similar dynamic in my family, though i haven’t collaborated with my father, we do talk about music a lot. However, I do also talk about art with my mother, as she has a similar interest as I do, so I assume that makes her feel included.

Since we’re talking about our Mom’s and how they feel about our music I’ll share a little vid.

My Mom seems to think that when my Dad and I are working on music(very rare) it must mean we’ve ran out of ‘important’ things to do. The second the volume goes up she’ll barge in with questions about dinner, errands, chores ect ect.

I asked her the night before to just let Dad and I have some space because he’s leaving town and we’re low on time. I tried to stop her from interrupting and she gave us our space, but made sure my Dad knew she wasn’t happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLGGqDfBnj8

Couldn’t view the video, set to private?

This is a whole other topic involving psychology and is way too heavy for a Renoise-forum, I think. :wink:

Couldn’t view the video, set to private?

Yea, this went way off topic, gonna leave fam outta this.

People post tracks for various reasons. Sometimes it’s to get feedback to help them make it better, sometimes it’s purely to show their work in the hopes that others will enjoy it.

I think to take the position that people who post unfinished work is somehow lazy or otherwise negative is a little strange.

I mean, if I were to take a similar attitude to the theme of your post I might say that it’s a half-finished idea… not properly thought through before being posted here and conclude that you are being lazy. But I don’t take that view, instead I see it as a discussion where (due to the nature of forums) people feel it’s normal to contribute ideas without necessarily offering a definitive conclusion requiring no further discussion.

And besides, art is never finished only abandoned.

I’ve just started reading “Zen and the art of mixing” which partly goes into the psychology of creativity. Seems like a highly recommendable book so far that puts things in perspective. I’ve learnt some very valuable lessons only from a few chapters.

My interpretation is that posting WIPs is often an attempt to relieve the internal pressure that often comes with creating something. If the pressure becomes too high, you might seek external validation. Therefor: a better approach might be to disregard pressure (especially as a motivator) in your mind from the start. Make music production something fun and exploring. Post a WIP only when you’ve come as far as you can and really need some input or feedback - i e when you lack vision.

People post tracks for various reasons. Sometimes it’s to get feedback to help them make it better, sometimes it’s purely to show their work in the hopes that others will enjoy it.

I think to take the position that people who post unfinished work is somehow lazy or otherwise negative is a little strange.

I mean, if I were to take a similar attitude to the theme of your post I might say that it’s a half-finished idea… not properly thought through before being posted here and conclude that you are being lazy. But I don’t take that view, instead I see it as a discussion where (due to the nature of forums) people feel it’s normal to contribute ideas without necessarily offering a definitive conclusion requiring no further discussion.

And besides, art is never finished only abandoned.

I don’t see it as lazy, not at all. Nor would I say negative either.

However, in the context of a public audience (ie: casual music listeners/punters as opposed to musicians/producers/engineers etc) i think it can be increase the possibilities of being detrimental, if only on a minor level.

In this context, what the casual listener first observes will often be what sticks.

Much the same as when meeting someone for the first time, a person makes an impression in the first few moments.

It is not impossible to counter this, it is just difficult and I prefer to avoid it if at all possible.

Each to their own though, just my 2 cents. by no means do I see my opinion as conclusive. It is but a mere opinion :slight_smile:

Never finished only abandoned indeed and to add, process is the most important part :slight_smile:

I’ve just started reading “Zen and the art of mixing” which partly goes into the psychology of creativity. Seems like a highly recommendable book so far that puts things in perspective. I’ve learnt some very valuable lessons only from a few chapters.

My interpretation is that posting WIPs is often an attempt to relieve the internal pressure that often comes with creating something. If the pressure becomes too high, you might seek external validation. Therefor: a better approach might be to disregard pressure (especially as a motivator) in your mind from the start. Make music production something fun and exploring. Post a WIP only when you’ve come as far as you can and really need some input or feedback - i e when you lack vision.

Interesting perspective. On a similar tangent, committing to finalizing something I believe builds confidence. To seek guidance and reassurance too often may illicit stagnation and indecisiveness. it may also stunt progress by developing a codependency on such a validation.

It can be possible that it is beneficial to some, though personally I would prefer to submit a track I considered finished for critique, then if i felt the response drew my attention to something i may have not considered, then I may rework it.

Although nowadays I am pushing myself to commit to finishing and just being content with it being the best I could do at the moment, regardless of how I feel in future. That to me, seems the most logical way for me to progress.

We all seem to have our ways of working, there are no rules set in stone. If there were, no doubt at some point they would be broken :wink:

make some chicken enchiladas with your mom, complain about how stupid texans are for not knowing what ‘real’ enchiladas are and how dumb those texans are for eating fake enchiladas for 4 generations before folks from where you are ever heard of them. everyone feels good. eat. nap. shut up.

i exaggerate. kiss your mom. i know it’s gross. but do it. not on the lips, though.