Miniroll was just a hack example to show getting the track/pattern data to/from Renoise to draw up the notes into a external process. It was nowhere near a useful piano roll from a musicians point of view 
people look, Renoise is a TRACKER-BASED Digital Audio Workstation.
there never has been the (or wasn’t much of) intention to add any piano-roll, because it’s a freaking tracker.
if you so desperately need a piano-roll, you should look for other daws.
bitwig, reaper, lmms (this is even for free).
what i dislike the most about this topic is that one of you piano-roll Lua devs offering your Lua Tool as a demo version. are you serious???
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@taktik Please add proper GUI drawing (simple vector stuff) and proper mouse event handling to the API. Thanks!
Sorry to say, but this matter has been commented on the forums hundreds of times, and I’m sure he knows perfectly well that interested LUA programmers who make great tools need this as paramount, and it’s not just to build a proper new pianoroll, no weird API + LUA tricks.
If this were possible, Renoise could have a better pianoroll than other DAWs, and it would be a “simple” LUA tool, an option, something not programmed by Renoise’s “team”. By this I don’t mean that building a piano roll with all those mouse tricks is easy… But I’m sure many users would be surprised. In the end it is not that complicated either once you know the API and LUA well 
There are very different approaches to windowed LUA tools that would take full advantage of these capabilities with the mouse and with a proper GUI.
Possibly the problem is the same, hardly anyone today buys a Renoise license. Why bother? Work and time must be paid! I can’t find another explanation for such lack of communication and dedication.
Renoise needs to improve his tracker, cover bugs (his GUI keeps dragging certain problems with windows, at least on Windows), complete things that are missing in the API, things that should already be for consistency (for example, the Sampler section Modulation is somewhat neglected and does not work well with targets nor does it update the Renoise GUI well with device chains, all this prevents proper control from a tool), listen to the LUA programmers who contribute the most to this community, so that keep increasing with the creativity of tools, which today are the only section that is really interesting.
I myself am tired of commenting on problems that I have encountered while building tools, and they are ignored over and over again (some have been fixed, many others have not). And waiting 2 years to see that the new version does not solve them is desperate. Makes you want to go somewhere else.
I love Renoise, I love programming tools, but I hate this constant situation! @Airman, a greeting! There are people who do not forget! 
Of course! and? And I am enormously surprised that you are surprised, @teis.
Can’t you get enough of everything you can get for free? This has a name. EGOISM and ARROGANCE! Being an exploiter person from others! Stop treating people like they’re stupid.
I find it useless to discuss these matters with anyone. But I’m going to tell you because I’m sick of comments like this, because you’re the second or third to ask in recent years. People who complain that they want everything for free and that others should do everything for free, is very immature. Grow a little mind! No one has to always give away everything. What have you believed? This is typical behavior for a 10-year-old toddler.
When you make extensive tools and give them to others, you come back and tell me about it. Okay?
By the way, who are you? Because I don’t know you at all. Do you understand the matter?
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Yeah this is frustrating, but nothing new. Please let’s stay fair here. Renoise is somewhat like a sparetime project of Taktik and his crew, pretty sure they are busy with other fulltime jobs, family etc. most of the time. So we can’t expect anything not realistic here. You can only lower your expectations then, to not be frustrated anymore. Maybe it is not an easy task to add these things, due the way Renoise is structured (Taktik himself wrote once that the codebase is really old from today’s perspective. 3rd party apis change over time or often are not even developed further anymore. Then targetting 3 platforms at once surely takes extra time, etc). So he will do other things with higher priority first.
So the only thing we can hope, at least, is that what already exists, works properly, or at least is complete, within its limitations, as a first step. Being realistic and fair!
And the next step would be to improve what already exists, not add new things!
And the next step would be to add new things…
I think it’s clear where the priorities are and the usual situation and history.
How painful!
I know it was a lot of work to add the GUI scaling. Would it be a lot of work to rewrite the base code so that the GUI always works smoothly with the latest generation graphics cards? Because this really deserves a new v4.0. There really is nothing left to do with Renoise other than minor bugs and completing the API for LUA tools.
If Renoise were to blow up the GPU, it would free up resources for the CPU and everything would work much better. They are obvious comments. But here people get lost with asking for audio tracks, pianoroll and other things, but the real work is there, in solving the CPU + GPU resources. Everything else is nonsense.
dude… i don’t even use your piano-roll. and won’t use it, not even if it would be for fuckin’ free!
so stop insinuating me that i ain’t using it because it’s not for free.
why did you get yourself a renoise license in the first place, knowing that it has no pianoroll?
whynot just get redux license and use it in any other pianoroll daw??
who i am? a tracker since the early years,since freaking noisetracker on amiga.
been sticking with renoise since < v1.0. you can even find me under “Who We Are”!
who are you? … who??? … right!
So what are you complaining about? Oh yeah, you want it all for free! Even things that you will never use? Seriously, I think you have not thought well what you have written.
I hope you can sleep at night and not be so disgusted. You sure have other more important things… Precisely with comments like yours it is useless to talk about these matters. You will keep coming back here to impose your rules. Relax a bit and stop meddling in matters you don’t care about, precisely because you don’t know me at all, dude.
I think it’s great that you are a very old person. But I am still surprised by your words. Have you really written this ?:
Is this what you dislike the most? Wow. You sure have other more important things to do…
answer my question, why the fuq did you buy renoise in the first place, knowing that it doesn’t have any pianoroll.
Oh yeah, you want it all for free! Even things that you will never use?
why are you assuming that i want it all for free? i’ve bought renoise, reason, vps avenger and what not.
so how dare you insinuate that i want everything for free?? seriously???
it’s not about getting something for free or paying for it.
stop blabling around about stuff i didn’t ask nor argued about.
stop distracting from what i was actually asking. why did you buy a NON-PIANO-ROLL DAW in the first place?
it’s a damn tracker … nobody asked you to change the fact that it’s a damn tracker.
nobody told you to freaking waste your time and money to add a piano-roll to a damn tracker!!!
assuming that i am very old, just because i started with trackers. wow
you don’t get what i am talking about. translating my stuff into spanish says it all
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@teis, what you want! 
Your last comment will serve me a lot for the future. I have learned a lot. Thanks!
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I would agree here, some things gone fishy in recent Renoise versions, maybe just because I updated to later OS versions. Midi timing seems to be fishy, as recently reported, and also while simple midi in note recording, seems to be always either too early or too late (same bug?). Then that CPU load problem related to GUI or something. Still better than Bitwig GUI (lowest standard), but a lot worse than Studio One, Cubase, Ableton, FLStudo etc.
I remember that midi timing used to be rock solid in Renoise in very early versions, people around the globe were impressed by that.
How is this relevant for this thread? @toimp isn’t asking anyone for money for the simple piano roll tool. Stop being a dick, and move on.
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i’ve never mentioned toimp. i wrote “ONE OF YOU”, implying that i’ve been talking about only 1 person, and that’s most absolutely NOT toimp, because he isn’t asking for money.
but well, i wasn’t aware that you aren’t able to read & understand properly. 
I was referring to toimp, as this thread is about frenetic_friend’s tool. And it seems to me, that toimp picked up when frenetic_friend’s project died. I’ve barely looked at the “other” tool. As I don’t get the vertical piano roll idea. Makes no sense to me personally. As it seems more like a tool that tries to reinvent piano roll and replace the entire workflow in Renoise, instead of just giving an aided view for a track. Which is what I want. A plain piano roll I can open and close when I feel for it/need it.
@ffx, when you notice those weird delays with MIDI timing are you using Renoise’s GUI scaling set to 100%, or are you using a higher scaling, say 150/200%?
Could high GUI scaling affect overall performance? Any MIDI reaction also results in a graphical change, and if everything is processed from the CPU, there may be problems.
Personally, I don’t notice any drastic issues with MIDI timing, but I do notice graphical slowness issues with tools with larger scales, if the tool has a lot of loaded objects, such as large images or a ton of buttons.
For example, I know that the xypad in large sizes begins to suffer, and even more if it has an overlapping object, such as a large image.
Test MIDI performance with 100% GUI scaling and compare it to 150/200% GUI, see if it works the equal.
Hi. I didn’t read all discussion in this topic yet. Just wanted to say that I’m working on the tool again. Old bugs regarding correct placing notes in track without occasionally deleting some, are still not fixed. I’m implementing new features, that I thought of only now. They are rather easy to make, at least if you work with single notes (not chords), but I thought that they would be very handy.
For example, correct me if I’m wrong, when you type notes with keyboard in renoise, you can only choose a step length. There is no option to jump to next note. I mean, in case that you want to keep existing places of notes, just want to change their tone. So, for my pianoroll I implemented typing notes from keyboard. The difference from patern editor is that typing notes in pianoroll doesn’t create new notes, it changes tone of focused note and jumps to another existing note.
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Well, everything at all would be easy, if it were for single notes