i’m getting better at arrangement—but to hear that other people have the same problem means it’s a real problem, and not just me! I use a lot of pattern splitting and joining commands to make arrangements, but it can still be rough. i’ll start with one bar at 32 lpb with a length of 40 (hex) and duplicate it 3 times, then merge the four-bar loop, but then i’ve got a 200/512 line pattern. I find that works, but it can be daunting.
I still have a little errant hihat or something hidden somewhere in the song, which can be frustrating, but sometimes it’s kinda cool
I’ve really been focusing on pattern fx commands, especially automation, and global commands. I’ve been using renoise for like 7 years and I FINALLY understand why the inertia parameter on so many native fx is useful—pattern automation! haha!
I recently unplugged any midi controllers and am forcing myslf to enter in automation by hand in fx columns, and it’s really helpful.
I BARELY use phrases, but i see their massive power. I rarely make any complex instruments, but i abuse the shit out of resampling. also, those that know, CDP. CDP. CDP. I’m not a hardcore tool user as I’m weirdly superstitious that too many tools will bloat the software, but CDP IS ESSENTIAL!
I’m also superstitious about doing anything audio-related while rendering a tune. if I get an AIM message, i re-render… lol
EDIT: horizontal arrangement is the only reason i want to do some things in ableton. everyone talks about how ableton has such a fast workflow—but it feels like swimming through creamed corn for me. eugh…
EDITEDIT: this is actually a very inspiring thread. we should go through a list of our weaknesses and find those of us who have strengths in them - and teach each other all these cool new things
strengths - beats…and obviously much more…sample manipulation
weaknesses - easy automation of vsts…really miss cubase ability to just move knobs and bounce and chop
truth, but render selection to sample is the single fastest way i’ve ever resampled anything! I know renoise can do everything i need to be able to do, though i might have to alter my workflow a bit. It’s more a matter of breaking out of self-imposed patterns
truth, but render selection to sample is the single fastest way i’ve ever resampled anything! I know renoise can do everything i need to be able to do, though i might have to alter my workflow a bit. It’s more a matter of breaking out of self-imposed patterns
yea i just wanna super fast automate vst method without the damn instrument automation thing…
I mean automating NI prism for example…aaaaaaaages
getting out of trad daw land paradigm…for sure…just some things need a streamline…
yea i just wanna super fast automate vst method without the damn instrument automation thing…
I mean automating NI prism for example…aaaaaaaages
getting out of trad daw land paradigm…for sure…just some things need a streamline…
If you`ve not seen it, this tool might be of help. I put a grab vst parameter function in it which works on instruments and fx. You click the [G] button with the song stopped, then move the element in the VST GUI that you want to automate, then use the large rotary on the tool gui to do your automation. For instruments you need to have an automation device in the track DSP lane and selected but it is the same principle.
Strengths: I think i have gotten better at drums lately and the mixing and mastering is also improving somewhat. Comparing with earlier tunes i definately hear some improvement in composition and sound in general.
It seems like the more i use Renoise, the more ideas i got and constantly finding new ways and sounds.
Weaknesses: Consistency. Mixing and mastering. I don’t like limiters.
Phrases, especially used for beatmaking and drum fills. So i can work with a 4 LPB pattern setup in the pattern editor and can create 8 LPB, 16 LPB or whatever in the phrase editor for e.g. fast drumfills without changing the LPB in the main pattern. And the abillity for individual phrases for each keyboard note.
Pattern commands.
The samlper and its editing features like it’s own fx and modulation routings for each sample individually.
Bridging: the abillity of using 32 bit VST’s in 64 bit Renoise and vice versa without any issues (much other DAW’s have big issues with internal bridging).
Send channels.
Pattern matrix, very easy to use for copying pattern stuff from previous patterns to a new one.
Meta & fx routing.
Weakness:
Automations: need more features for automation curves, especially e.g. for dragging individual bezier curves would be nice.
Sampler: it’s modulation envelopes, same thing like with the Automations. Dragging individual curves would be nice. And it’s limit of using just 12 sample layers per note.
strengths: best sample editor, best sequencer, high quality effects modules, excellent routing options, phrases as arpeggiators, best price, multiplatform
weaknesses: no oscillator modules (must always use samples / rendered vsti), no audio tracks, no touch screen mode for tablet / touchscreen laptop usage, vibrato pattern effect command is out of time since way back.
I love the idea of this topic, but I think it’s also misunderstood by most.
It’s about our weaknesses and strengths
Although you can argue there is can be a certain overlap between the personal abilities and the abilities of the software, “chalking up my favorite feature suggestions” is something we have plenty of already. So, if you believe to be a skilledtouchscreen musician, or you can’t compose without a pianoroll - then yes, this could be seen as a personal strength/weakness.
Although you can argue there is can be a certain overlap between the personal abilities and the abilities of the software, “chalking up my favorite feature suggestions” is something we have plenty of already. So, if you believe to be a skilledtouchscreen musician, or you can’t compose without a pianoroll - then yes, this could be seen as a personal strength/weakness.
I think I agree with this somewhat… one of my weaknesses is definitely my ability to compose melodies for basslines or chord progressions for piano loops or pads. Whilst I don’t think a piano roll would solve this issue for me personally (I absolutely hate the piano roll in FL Studio and Reason anyway) I think the Renoise way of tackling this problem is definitely a bit one dimensional and could definitely do with some improvements.
In keeping with the original spirit of the thread though, I would happily admit that this is more than likely a weakness of my own musical ability rather than renoise’s capabilitiy itself.
strengths - sound design been able to get all sorts of sounds just using the sampler and some tools
the drum programming its perfect in compare to other daws having note velocity and delay and pan columns right next to each other its a bonus
weakness - as in any other daw i get distracted to easily when the project starts to progress having multiple instruments and building parts gets in the middle of me finishing more songs
Programming beats that I have a fair understanding of into the pattern editor - hip hop, pop, rock, disco, reggae, and mixing and matching these type of beats to come up with unique rhythms
Programming certain types of synth parts - chord and arpeggio based into the pattern editor.
Sampling my sound design/rendering my vst to renoise instruments. (I am not adding this as a program feature) There are certain things I am doing here - layering drums, layering base, making sure certain synth parts that may have many modulation parameters are played back in the way in which I intend
Song arrangement. I absolutely love the arranger of the program. (also a program feature, but not me trying to cheat the topic) You can get good at using the feature. I think it is brilliant and it works for me very well.
Weaknesses
Programming beats I do not understand. I would love to be a, “break maestro,” of which I am not. When I listen to some of you who are making bad ass breaks, I am just floored. Like, “wow!” Also, I wish I was a little better, or even, “good at all,” at techno, jungle, d n b.
doofers, meta devices, fx chains, saving renoise instruments and building libraries of things to use again in other tracks.
pattern fx commands. I am used to delay, velocity, and pan. but the sample fx commands still a little tricky
haven’t actually used phrases yet.
still a little weak with audio and midi routing
automation - a lot of the movement in my tracks doesn’t come from automation. I’m all about the synth’s mod matrix
pattern fx commands. I am used to delay, velocity, and pan. but the sample fx commands still a little tricky
This is imo worth investing your time to learn as they are pretty essential and shouldn’t be that hard to wrap your head around. And if you’re not sure how an effect command works it doesn’t hurt to ask on the forum.
My strenghts is that i’m quite creative, or at least i like to think so.
Even if it’s not the greatest stuff i make all the time i make something all the time.
I think i’d fall into the category of ‘Renoise addicts’, i know the most essential and a bit more, could probably make a track with blindfolds if had to.
My weaknesses is that i very often over do stuff, where i should have taken it easy i instead pushes things to the limit and ruins the dynamics.
I’m very impatient when it comes to mixing and mastering, i like working with effects and such, but to make everything fit into the mix is not my greatest trait.
I suck horribly at replicating sounds and genre styles and whatever. I really like the creative part of making music, but replicating stuff, that is more like boring work to me. I can add a reference track to my project and then after a few hours i’m working on something competely different.
Subtleness is not my strongest trait, when i focus on it i can sometimes overcome it a bit, but usually i step on it.
I’m not very good at timing and not the greatest beat programmer, i can sometimes fool a noob, but i won’t fool the maestros. I’m not totally green, but this is related to the previously mentioned weaknesses, i’m a bit like Ed Wood.
It is psychological thing… because renoise is micro oriented and you cant zoom out i create detailed loops not long sequences. i dont leave spaces and my compositions are usually very “tight”, no pauses, no silence, just a lot of sounds. I dont have this problem with traditional daws where i create long minimalistic beats. I tried to connect redux and reaper but then i cant sequence vsti via tracker view and rewire has its flaws.
I’m really the same way as you, I totally get this. Renoise feels so “zoomed in” that I spend all my time with it building very focused elaborate individual patterns, but then have a lot of trouble arranging those patterns into a meaningful whole a lot of the time.
The pattern sequencer is certainly an incredibly useful tool for arranging, no doubt. And I also really like Renoise’s automation, the fact that the automation (by default) always scales to the specific pattern makes it in some ways more tightly organized than in traditional DAWs. But despite these strengths, my mind still struggles with arrangement on a macro-level. It’s probably not Renoise’s fault, and just my own training with “traditional” DAW timelines.
So, to answer the OP’s question, for me it’s the same:
Strength – building elaborate, syncopated sequences making extensive use of instrument modulation sets / effects chains, automation, and large handfuls of devices.
Weakness - arranging those sequences into a meaningful whole
This is imo worth investing your time to learn as they are pretty essential and shouldn’t be that hard to wrap your head around. And if you’re not sure how an effect command works it doesn’t hurt to ask on the forum.
I’m getting there. I have more pattern fx commands in the song I’m working on right now, than I have ever had in my whole time using Renoise.
You know, last night I was thinking to myself, “when I started producing, everything was a vst synth. Now, everything is a sample - something rendered to audio.”
