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Automating Crystal Vsti


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#1 keith303

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 23:42

i'm totally lost finding the parameters i'm looking for as the vsti automation device presents me a list looking like this:

Posted Image

did anyone ever manage to properly automate this thing?
is there some kinda "trick" i'm missing or am i the only guy who wants to modulate some stuff by song-automation with this synth?

#2 ptrance

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 00:26

Only used Crystal occasionally and never tried to automate it at all. However, I also saw already some other plugins with this issue, where every parameter was described as... well, a parameter. My workaround there, was using the midicc device to automate its parameters. Look up a possible manual for the crystal plug. Most manuals *should* describe which midiCC No. belongs to which param.
The unfortunate downside is though, that you can only change up to 128 settings...

*edit
well, one idea which could work, although it's also a pain in the ass to do...
If I recall right, also crystals settings (gui wise) has sectioned areas (like filter, adsr, etc.). You could try this: Open the VSTi gui, choose a totally random vsti parameter no. from your metadevice, move the slider and look which parameter in the VSTi window is moving. From there you go either some parameter numbers up or down and repeat that slider moving. That would be called the "sneak up teh param. I god damn want"-method. :)
I know... pain, but *could* possibly work...

Edited by ptrance, 19 August 2007 - 00:35.


#3 keith303

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 00:46

hey sebastian :)

Most manuals *should* describe which midiCC No. belongs to which param.

that's what i thought as well. but there's no info concerning that in the crystal online and/or pdf manual.
the plugin doesn't feature midi learn as well (except for a handfull of parameters which i do not plan to automate).

concerning your edit:
that's exactly what i've been doing for about 20 minutes before i posted here: trying to narrow down the parameter number area to the respective area which i want to modulate.
i was having quite some "hits" where i could see the GUI faders react to my meta device movements. unfortunately i had no luck finding the params i was actually looking for.

Posted Image
the faders i want to automate are the "high" & "low" ones of the above modulation matrix. you can merely define some midi CC# as "source" - but that's not what i'm looking for, because i want to leave the source to an LFO...

thanks a lot anyways! some VSTi are really a plague to handle sometimes...

#4 plusminus

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 05:26

Keith303: try these. Untested but it hopefully works.

Page 1
Low 1: 304 High 1: 305
Low 2: 308 High 2: 309
Low 3: 312 High 3: 313
Low 4: 316 High 4: 317
Low 5: 320 High 5: 321
Low 6: 324 High 6: 325

Page 2
Low 1: 328 High 1: 329
Low 2: 332 High 2: 333
Low 3: 336 High 3: 337
Low 4: 340 High 4: 341
Low 5: 344 High 5: 345
Low 6: 348 High 6: 349

There's a chance the numbers are off by +/- 1 , i.e. Low 1 Page 1 might be 303 (!) or 305.

HTH

#5 It-Alien

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 11:02

if the plugin allows MIDI learning, associate a knob to a MIDI CC# and use MidiCCDevice. I do this 99% of the times
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#6 keith303

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 13:52

@plusminus
awesome! your list is absolutely correct - thanks heaps :D
now i wonder how you came up with it, especially because you said "untested"?
there's one parameter i still need to automate: the sync of LFO2.
this one is actually always enabled, and i don't intend to turn it off, but for some odd reason the sync always gets disabled whenever i reload my song even though the GUI still indicates it was still on - but it isn't.
it's obviously a little bug which i'd have to workaround by initializing that sync parameter with an automation on the first pattern which turns it off/on once to make it work after loading the song.

so if there's some kind of list or logic behind the parameter numbering, please let me know.

@It-Alien
that's how i circumvent such problems with other plugins that don't offer a comprehensive automation parameter labeling.
unfortunately the CrystalVSTi doesn't offer a midi learn function for ~99.9% of its parameters.

EDIT: i did some further round of the "successively hunting down the parameter" game and found the LFO2sync \o/
parameter 373 :)

thanks again plusminus, without you i wouldn't have been going anywhere with this stuff :)

#7 plusminus

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 17:05

@plusminus
awesome! your list is absolutely correct - thanks heaps :D
now i wonder how you came up with it, especially because you said "untested"?

I'm on Linux, and as of yet there's no Renoise for it, hence untested. Here's what I did:
  • Made a file in AudioMulch that had just the Crystal VST and saved it. AudioMulch stores it's files in a very simple XML format and I've got experience hacking them by hand.
  • Used a Linux tool, sed, to quickly edit the XML so that every parameter on the VST got set to 0.
  • Went back into AudioMulch, gave each of the high/low sliders a specific value in an easy-to-remember order. (Low 1 got set to 0.1, Low 2 was 0.14, etc..)
  • Opened the XML in a text editor and looked for the parameter numbers that had nonzero values.
Which, by the way, is bull****. Luckily for you this is stuff I'm used to doing, but really that should be completely unnecessary. If you use the Crystal VST after this incident, consider filing a bug report.

there's one parameter i still need to automate: the sync of LFO2.

Sorry I missed this bit before, looks like you found it at least.

thanks again plusminus, without you i wouldn't have been going anywhere with this stuff :)

Glad to help... just remember this when it comes time to vote! ;)

#8 HighlyDubious

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:34

*bumping an old thread*

I'm having the same issue described here, I get a list of parameters numbered 0-777 with no descriptions.... :(

I've asked over on the Crystal users Yahoo group and got the following reply:

Having names usually isn't important. To automate a parameter in most hosts, or to attach it to a device, you touch the fader on the Crystal interface. Trying to choose a parameter from a menu with a thousand entries would be rather cumbersome. Is it not possible in renoise to attach the parameter by moving the Crystal control?

Does anyone know if this function exists? It's not something I've done before - and considering my input device is a QWERTY keyboard, I doubt any learn functions would be available to me?

Cheers

#9 kazakore

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:24

Having names usually isn't important. To automate a parameter in most hosts, or to attach it to a device, you touch the fader on the Crystal interface. Trying to choose a parameter from a menu with a thousand entries would be rather cumbersome. Is it not possible in renoise to attach the parameter by moving the Crystal control?

Does anyone know if this function exists?



Unfortunately not. Been suggested a few times. Here is the most recent one, in the 2.8 Beta forum.

http://www.renoise.c...-learning-mode/

Hopefully it will be seen to soon...

#10 nilserickson

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:00

Hi all,

 

I wanted live control over the LFO section and started making a list. There's still some holes but here is a link to my cataloging of the crystal synth unlabeled parameters. If you find any more let me know and I will add to the list.