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Automation - Recording In High Resolution


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#1 Cie

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 14:35

The high resolution regarding drawing Automation curves is awesome and puts controlling synthesizers finally to a quite professional level. But what I would like to be able is the other way round: Recording Automation curves in the high resolution (maybe by default in the highest possible resolution) via an external (Midi-) controller (like a knob, slider, wheel etc.).
At the moment, when recording controller changes, the values are recorded as pattern commands directly into the pattern. So you have only the resolution of the given pattern (what is "1" in the new Automation resolution) and leads to a lot of missing values.
So my purpose would be to record the movements of an external controller directly as Automation curve in the highest resolution instead of pattern-commands. What do you think?
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#2 Djeroek

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 15:26

At the moment, when recording controller changes, the values are recorded as pattern commands directly into the pattern. So you have only the resolution of the given pattern (what is "1" in the new Automation resolution) and leads to a lot of missing values.


I don't have a controller with me to test it, but what if you record the automation straight to envelopes instead of the pattern editor, what will be the resolution than?

#3 vV

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 15:41

I don't have a controller with me to test it, but what if you record the automation straight to envelopes instead of the pattern editor, what will be the resolution than?


Resolution will be lines as well. It's a good suggestion.
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#4 subset

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 09:41

+100!

I was really hyped when I read about the increased automation resolution and the first thing I tried was recording a part on my MIDI controller with lots of fast knob twiddling. I was really sad to see that all controller changes in-between lines were lost in the automation lane.

#5 taktik

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 09:51

Yay, definitely a good and obvious suggestion. Simply didn't made it into the first beta - yet. Same for quantization of existing automation data.

Maybe it would make sense to use the pattern editors quantize settings also for the automation with when recording? Always recording in sub line precision definitely also can be annoying.
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#6 It-Alien

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 09:53

probably i an missing something, anyway you can already record automations to envelopes1 there is an icon on the lower left corner of the pattern editor in order to enable this (i'm on handy phone now so i can't give you better explanation, sorry)
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#7 mr_mark_dollin

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 10:26

Yay, definitely a good and obvious suggestion. Simply didn't made it into the first beta - yet. Same for quantization of existing automation data.

Maybe it would make sense to use the pattern editors quantize settings also for the automation with when recording? Always recording in sub line precision definitely also can be annoying.


This optionality would be excellent. I like what is suggested.
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#8 subset

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 12:49

Yay, definitely a good and obvious suggestion. Simply didn't made it into the first beta - yet. Same for quantization of existing automation data.

Maybe it would make sense to use the pattern editors quantize settings also for the automation with when recording? Always recording in sub line precision definitely also can be annoying.


I think it might be better to have a separate quantize option for the automation alone. I can imagine scenarios where one would need quantized automation so it's definitely good to have this, but it's also possible one would want to record quantized notes with non-quantized automation (i.e. a snappy lead part with lots of modulation wheel play).

EDIT: Then again, you can always quantize the notes later, so you might as well pair the note/automation quantization under the existing setting.

Edited by subset, 14 March 2011 - 12:52.


#9 loimi

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 23:39

Yes this is welcome addition, I tried to record wind controller and was going to type a bug report, good I found this thread first.

Regarding resolution I think it would be good if drawing/editing/recording would work at selected resolution regardless of zoom level (at least drawing seems to be affected by view area which is annoying).

On a related note it would be nice to be able to record all incoming MIDI CCs into lanes without mapping them first to parameters (so that aftertouch would go to aftertouch automation lane, breath to breath etc - it's a timesaver).

#10 Guest_crytek_*

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 18:24

No biezer curves yet it seems. :(

#11 Guest_Bantai_*

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 17:33

Especially when recording automation with a high resolution, it would be nice if unnecessary points are automatically removed à la Automation Cleaner.

Does not remove the need for a quantize option, but it would make high resolution envelopes a lot more efficient.

#12 sodiufas

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 20:58

+1

#13 Cie

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 23:38

Yay, definitely a good and obvious suggestion. Simply didn't made it into the first beta - yet. Same for quantization of existing automation data.

Maybe it would make sense to use the pattern editors quantize settings also for the automation with when recording? Always recording in sub line precision definitely also can be annoying.


Would be really nice.
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#14 thematrixhasyou

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 23:13

Doesn't want to start a new thread....But i think that many ppl should agree if i suggest an ability to copy whole track automation curve (of highlited parameter)!
I think this is super-important tool to have in Renoise, and i really miss it (or am i missing some hidden ability to do that?)

Edited by failure13, 01 April 2011 - 23:14.


#15 Djeroek

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 07:53

Doesn't want to start a new thread....But i think that many ppl should agree if i suggest an ability to copy whole track automation curve (of highlited parameter)!
I think this is super-important tool to have in Renoise, and i really miss it (or am i missing some hidden ability to do that?)


Can be done. Make sure the automation editor has focus (little red brackets around it - middle mouse click in it for example to get focus) and press ctrl+a to select all. Move to the next pattern and press ctrl+v to paste the selection.

#16 thematrixhasyou

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 09:31

No no...You have described pattern to pattern, but i mean whole track to whole track...
Like if you have song with 666 patterns, track 1 with volume automation around whole track, which you want to copy on track 2 exactly as it is...
Copying each pattern is a very time-eating process for a long track!

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I'd wish to have something like 'copy' option in this menu here.

Edited by failure13, 02 April 2011 - 09:35.


#17 kazakore

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 15:56

Go to Advanced Edit.

Deselect every but Automation.

Select Track In Song.

Copy Track (Shift+F4)

Move to new track and Paste Track (Shift+F5)


Surely that does what you want, no?

#18 vV

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 16:38

No no...You have described pattern to pattern, but i mean whole track to whole track...
Like if you have song with 666 patterns, track 1 with volume automation around whole track, which you want to copy on track 2 exactly as it is...
Copying each pattern is a very time-eating process for a long track!

Posted Image
I'd wish to have something like 'copy' option in this menu here.


Go to the pattern matrix, hit left control, then drag the specific track to any other track you like (either same pattern or other pattern) and simply drop. Everything copied including automation. You can remove what you don't need/want.
Fast and not too cumbersome. You can select the second copy as well and then duplicate the whole selection again, copying multiple tracks in one movement that was what the pattern matrix was also designed for.
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#19 kazakore

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 16:43

Go to the pattern matrix, hit left control, then drag the specific track to any other track you like (either same pattern or other pattern) and simply drop. Everything copied including automation. You can remove what you don't need/want.
Fast and not too cumbersome. You can select the second copy as well and then duplicate the whole selection again, copying multiple tracks in one movement that was what the pattern matrix was also designed for.


Think I've just realised my above doesn't actually work (Maybe for Track/Pan DSP only?) as obviously tracks have different DSP Chains most of the time.

Think more "I want to copy a whole Song's length of Automation from Parameter A to Parameter B, whether it be in the same Track or a different one...

#20 thematrixhasyou

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 17:11

kazakore
Your method works well, but you have alredy understand, that i'd like to do this: "I want to copy a whole Song's length of Automation from Parameter A to Parameter B, whether it be in the same Track or a different one..."

vV
As an option it will do, but what if i don't need to change the whole song structure, notes etc etc, what if i just need to copy the envelope (on a whole song length) of just one parameter to completely different track, and use it with completely different device or parameter?

And this is SUPER-IMPORTANT tool to use!

For example now i have a song made with a previous version of plugin, and with the never version of this plugin CC parameters are different...
Now you can see the application of this tool, i can spend weeks to manually copy pattern by pattern, parameter by parameter...OR
Posted Image
You can put something like copy all envelopes in song in this menu, for every selected parameter...This could save lifes actually!

And also it would be even better if you'll add an ability to select multiple patterns in automation editor at once, to copy only the selected track's curves...This could be done with a copy all selected envelopes in song button or something similar.
This is just an idea, but copy all envelopes in song is an actual need!

Edited by failure13, 02 April 2011 - 17:20.


#21 kazakore

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 17:27

I wish you could draw over multiple patterns! Rather than just the quick line tool, which really doesn't cure the problem. Why does one specific pattern always have to be active in the Automation window? It should just let us draw, select, copy and paste at any arbitrary points over multiple patterns. Although I can understand it's useful to tie to Edit position at a lot of time, there are also time (when zoomed full out for eg) when it really isn't. I'm guess this is a big part of why...

Matrix now lets us copy and paste multiple patterns worth of a single/selection of track(s) please introduce something similar with Automation.

#22 vV

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 18:01

You can put something like copy all envelopes in song in this menu, for every selected parameter...This could save lifes actually!

And also it would be even better if you'll add an ability to select multiple patterns in automation editor at once, to copy only the selected track's curves...This could be done with a copy all selected envelopes in song button or something similar.
This is just an idea, but copy all envelopes in song is an actual need!


I guess it may be tool time then.... :)

Matrix now lets us copy and paste multiple patterns worth of a single/selection of track(s) please introduce something similar with Automation.



If the Advanced Edit content-masking would apply to the pattern matrix as well, it would already make life a lot more easier.
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#23 thematrixhasyou

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 19:28

I guess it may be tool time then.... :)

If you say so... :D
But i still think that this is everyday task for a lot of musicians...
Advanced edit content-masking applying to the pattern matrix is a good idea though too, but it still can't do nothing with copying automation from parameter A to parameter B..
I even wonder why you haven't made this ability befoire :ph34r:

#24 vV

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 21:00

Advanced edit content-masking applying to the pattern matrix is a good idea though too, but it still can't do nothing with copying automation from parameter A to parameter B..

That's very easy to declare, because automations represent parameter values and since there is no way to translate dB to panning values for instance there is a risc your plugin might crash because it has to cope with a value in a range it might not support the value.
And that is the reason why you cannot copy automation from parameter X to parameter Y.
You may have 5 gallons of petrol, but you don't pour that in a car that runs on gasoline either, even though both are fluids and both type of cars have an engine that runs on fuel and drive on four wheels, that doesn't make everything else identical.
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#25 thematrixhasyou

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 21:44

vV
Damn..Sounds bad enough
Than what about kazakore's idea of drawing (and using different commands) on multiple patterns?