“For everybody who wants a vertical arranger, you ever try this?” 
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This will only ever happen as a 3rd party tool, much like piano rolls.
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Idk, guys - if you want FL Studio - just go and buy FL Studio
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FL is great and sucks at the same time no cap. Way too much stuff that is click and mouse required. It can do just about everything though. Just shift through loads of menus lol
But even the light version is too much stuff I don’t want
The appeal of Renoise and the tracker to me is the keyboard centric workflow and immediate access to data.
I feel like programming beats and beat making in traditional software are two different experiences.
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To me the main thing of a tracker is the pattern editor and I love that and would never jump ship to something that doesn’t have one, so no I don’t want FL Studio, Live, Cubase or whatever…
FL Studio will never get a tracker editor and Renoise will never get a piano roll and probably not a horizontal arranger either… so whatever
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But there are not one but two VERY capable piano roll tools. Hotkeys, live recording and everything.
This one could definitely be integrated as native just for the heck of it but native or not…
I really like the idea of Tools. I think it’s Renoises coolest feature
I think the only update we need is giving tool makers more access.
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Good point and yeah the Tools feature is absolutely wonderful!
I haven’t tried any of the piano roll tools but good point, I mean if Renoise has a top notch Piano roll then they should advertise it because that’s what so many people want these days.
I definitely agree with you. I would prefer Simple Pianoroll in this case. But many user in this forum are stucked in there mind’s.They think if such thing was added to Renoise, they would lost something! (blablabla…tracker paradigm…bla) I think this is a ridicolous attitude, and i say that as a very conservative human. But so are the things nowadays in the Renoise Community… I dont want discuss further over that pianoroll thematics here, its wasted livetime. I only can take it with irony.
So…live long and prosper! … ähm, i mean…
HAPPY PIANOROLLTRACKING! or maybe better TRACKINGPIANOROLLING?! 
Maybe renoise should advertise the non-piano-rolf method as something unique - retro cool, back to basics - something akin to analogue synth and single speed bicycles. Everyone has piano lol, but few have the tracker.
Absolutely, make a quick two minute video ad that shows how simple and quickly an awesome loop can be made
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By the way, should’ve mentioned before already, but this feature already exists (in fact in a form very very close to what I have had in mind) in a commercial product: Precyne
I don’t think the product as a whole is fully mature yet at all, but it’s a good example of the Arranger+tracker interface concept existing as a practical implementation. A lot more work could and should still be put into it, but this represents a solid reference and source for inspiration
(There’s a lot more to Precyne as well where Renoise could take inspiration from, especially wrt external hardware workflows and effects in particular, but for the context of the topic let’s just limit the scope to the Arranger parts.)
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Keep it all Vertical! It is the Way!
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cool, thnx for the heads up, bought it for support. Hope it matures and development doesn’t stop.
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Cool. Glad to see that there are new tracker projects with new ideas.
It’s hard for an old software like Renoise to change too many existing things that people are used to. Ideas like this IMHO need a new software with probably a new user backend like Precyne.
I’m not saying that Renoise can’t continue to evolve, but substantial changes to existing features in Renoise will probably create more fuzz than be welcomed by existing users. Sometimes you have to start from scratch.
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Precyne looks to me even more traditional than Renoise… It is not an Aodix either. Not sure who needs this, if there is Renoise already? Is there anything in Precyne which Renoise can’t do? I really do not understand such new products. Instead going an OO style way, it chose the worst concepts of a Tracker IMHO…
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I like the idea of renoise being a tracker before anything.
Aside from my appreciation of the cool aesthetic of the vertical view (when I cook up beats in front of others, it’s always the same reaction when they see renoise in action 
The way I see it renoise and trackers in general already look to the average person like something far more advanced than a traditional DAW, and in many ways they are.
Anything added to it automatically feels like an “extension” of the tracker.
Pattern Editor/Vertical View with horizontal arranger as an extra tab is what I say.
I think that would be the best way to advertise to the majority, which are traditional horizontal DAW users. Not saying try to be the next FL studio, but as long as it remains a tab and not something forced on the workflow, it would be a win/win. There are tabs I never go to sometimes.
And aside from being a tracker, renoise’s gui, navigation, and non bloatyness is something EVERYONE who hates bloat, extra menus for basic stuff, etc would appreciate
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The crucial question is: Why should a piano roll fanatic, mouse clicking orgy enthusiast and vertical illiterate be interested in switching to a tracker?
Big questionmarks in their eyes and white noise within their heads?
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Well, there are some stranglers out there amongst the mouse clickers and pianorollers. I was one of em and ended up stumbling across Renoise when I wasn’t even looking for a new DAW.
The idea of integrating popular features like piano roll and audio sequencing into a tracker would actually INTRODUCE people who don’t even know what a tracker is.
For instance,my first modular DAW was energyXT which is primarily a modular environment. However, it had a basic audio and midi sequencer that was familiar to me. One day, I was like, what does this complicated section actually do? Over ten years later and I now own Bidule(IMO the best modular environment, and it doesn’t have a sequencer OR piano roll
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Vertical>Horizontal guy anyday now but any addition that includes the standard stuff found in any other DAW would only benefit Renoise as a whole even if these additions aren’t fleshed out and chock full of features.
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anyone remembers Energy XT?
Idk - one thing leads to another, it’s a slippery slope, and we end with a general boring daw.
I think FL Studio went a bit too far with some of that dawing. I miss the old school pattern brick playlist matrix and the brutal simplicity of it.
If people want to try a tracker and like it - they should not be having a piano roll and horizontal dawish audio sequencing near them.
They should instead, get the tracker, download some basic 101 help manual, unplug Internet, get some undisturbed time and focus - and just get into tracking.
Renoise, imho, is one of the last from the days of old when the humanity had not wandered too far away from the song of Eru Ilúvatar - meaning it’s not bloated with crap and fancy graphic gradients and blurs, it’s straight to the point, it does what it does and does not do what it does not, and it runs on a toaster too.
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The ole EXT 
those were the days. Changing colors schemes, different template projects…
I don’t understand the sort of tribalism when it comes to DAWs though. Sure FL added a lot of fluff and bloatware tbh but u can STILL make beats the old fashioned way. FL is pretty deep, even has a modular enviro plug-in…but most people who use it just smash out hip hop beats the same way. It didn’t hurt the core base of the program by adding things that aren’t used or even known to most of the core audience.
I say add everything, not for the sake of money, but just to make the program better. And let the users use it however they see fit.
I never used a tracker before Renoise, so I don’t have the same sentiments as others, however, it’s become very obvious for me that the tracker format is better for music making period, I see it as less of tracker and more of a ¿superior? way to make beats and stuff lol
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