I didn’t realise that, I will take a look at the video.
I totally agree, every program can benefit from certain aspects of other programs, the more discussion on these things the better.
Show me how you would do this in Renoise:
It isn’t remotely helpful if you “don’t feel like explaining why exactly”. I’m all ears, tell us what you don’t like about it.
How do you get around the following problem:
In the Pattern Matrix, patterns are arbitrarily given numbers according to which number in the pattern sequence they were created in - this hampers your workflow so much, it’s unbelievable. This is a prime example of how NOT to design an arranger. The video above shows why.
FL Studio uses clips, like Buzz. Orion uses clips. I presume Sonar, Cubase and virtually all other DAWs use clips, clips which aren’t given some arbitrary number which forces you to change the way you write your music, as you struggle to work around the interface.
You have no idea whether those who dislike the Pattern Matrix are in a minority. Those who actually like it are welcome to try to explain WHY, but I doubt any of them can. Please go ahead - explain why you prefer the Pattern Matrix to the Buzz Sequence Editor - but first you have to use both… otherwise you don’t know what you are talking about.
- You have all your stuff on a single screen. It’s easier to see what’s going on in the song this way.
- Usually, songs are not that simple. Imagine breakcore track that has 300 drum patterns or so, and they’re all different. I’m not sure it will be easy to acheive in Buzz.
- In Pattern Matrix, you can see if the pattern has automation and how notes are placed in it. In Buzz Sequencer, you can’t.
Regarding removing blocks: instead of deleting block, you can just mute it. It’ll have the same effect.
The pattern matrix is useful for some types of music, just not the types of music I like to make. It is next to useless to me, and I know full well how to use it, it is just simply incapable of helping me do what I want. The pattern sequencer in Renoise is so basic compared to the sequencing capabilities of other DAWs that it is painful to use. I don’t want to use another program (although if Reason were to include a tracker interface and VST support I’d be tempted to), I want Renoise to add the one glaring feature it has been missing for so long (one that other trackers and most DAWs have had for ages).
I am not asking for something to replace the pattern matrix (which is not an arranger or sequencer by any stretch of the imagination), I am asking for a more advanced and flexible arranger to compliment the existing tools available in Renoise and make it a more complete production environment.
Lets keep things civil, folks.
You can see multiple patterns on one screen in Buzz, using Pattern XP. This looks like the patterns in Renoise. You can choose which tracks you display in the pattern, using Pattern XP.
It will be MUCH easier to do in Buzz, especially a track with 300 drum patterns.
I would disagree that you can see ‘how notes are placed in it’ - the pattern matrix blocks are much too small to be of any use for that, and all you see is the TIMING of the notes, not even the notes themselves (i.e. in FL Studio you see a mini piano roll in each clip, which is far more useful than the Pattern matrix blocks.) In Buzz you can give your clips NAMES, which is of far greater use, especially if you have 300 drum patterns… Even being able to call them ‘Drum 01’, ‘Drum 02’ is more useful than 300 pattern matrix cells which are too small to show you anything useful…
Yes, that’s a sort of workaround, but the entire problem is that the pattern matrix is simply a more advanced tracker playlist, but not really fit for purpose, and the arranger/sequencer is the most important part of any music program, I would say.
All I can say is - if anybody has used Buzz for long enough, going to the Pattern Matrix is like a massive step backwards.
I am working on another song, and have come across another problem that often occurs when using Pattern Matrix, I’ll try to make a video to show you what it is. This problem would never occur in Buzz, it wouldn’t even come up.
http://forum.renoise…post__p__305894
To me that quite sounds like it amongst others is crashing often (although i said i left buzz because it was crashing, not you left it because of that) and i wasn’t specifically mentioning your name in my remark (if you read it thoroughly). But at least my remark is based on these kind of expressions, from amongst others and including you indeed, not something i put into your or anyone else’s mouth specifically.
Seriously, these videos are supposed to be impressive and a good reason for everyone to get into Buzz ? You’re getting that vindicative in the forum for … This ?? Come oooon, you make me think of this :
Brace yourself, “strawman arguments”, “let intelligent people talk” and “discussion isn’t allowed here” answers are coming 
Perhaps reading isn’t your strong point.
Where did I suggest anybody “get into Buzz”?
Did you not understand the title of this thread? “Add buzz styled sequencing TO RENOISE”?
I see that neither you, nor anybody else here, has been able to make a simple video explaining WHY they prefer the Pattern Matrix to the Buzz Sequence Editor.
Isn’t that strange…
Are you actually capable of understanding user interfaces, and how arrangers/sequencers work? Care to say what you think? Unlike the PatternMatrixians, I’m more than interested in ‘heretics’ of the Church of Buzzianity, so please, say whatever you want.
Do you understand how the Buzz Sequence Editor works? Do you understand how the Pattern Matrix works?
Can you produce a video of Renoise doing the same things as I do in the Buzz video above?
We’re still all waiting for you to explain why you don’t like the Buzz Sequence Editor…
You can also produce a video showing the Pattern Matrix doing the same things as I do in the Buzz video above. Can’t you?
The pattern matrix is not an arranger, it was never destined to be one in the first place.
Danoise contributed the idea as a “poor man’s arranger” which offers a little more functionalities than the pattern sequencer alone allows you to and that is frankly how people should see it and everybody will have to do with until this area is being worked on again.
The pattern matrix was also never meant to be a final solution forever.
You said, and I quote:
“You know what i think is the most frustrating for Buzz users here?
They are frustrated by the fact Buzz is still a piece of instable shit and underdeveloped and most likely Buzz users feel frustrated that it isn’t Buzz that is being actively developed and stabilized but Renoise.
I bet that if Buzz was completely stable, Buzz users would most likely never have stepped away from it.”
You were clearly setting up a strawman argument. You’re saying that you think “Buzz users… are frustrated by the fact Buzz is still a piece of instable shit and underdeveloped”. etc.etc.
New Buzz hasn’t crashed on me - ever. And it’s TOTALLY irrelevant to this thread, which is about adding the Buzz sequence editor TO RENOISE…
So why aren’t you talking about the Buzz Sequence Editor and the Pattern Matrix themselves? Afraid the BSE will win the argument?
Isn’t that stating the obvious? Whoever said otherwise? Are we not allowed to talk about it then? It sounds like several other people on this thread think the Pattern Matrix is just wonderful, and not a stopgap at all.
No, we aren’t.
Read my previous comment which are also my final words about it. I’m pretty much done with this debate about the PM.
“We”? Have you got multiple personality? I can’t see anyone except you waiting to those explanations…
Yes, I can record some videos, but I don’t want to waste time like this. Creating music is too much fun for me, sorry.
Wrote new song in this imperfect, broken thing called Renoise, check it out on my soundcloud if you want.
Seriously, I don’t want to prove you anything. It’s pretty pointless.
I just don’t like Buzz Sequencer. Not my cup of tea. Don’t feel comfortable.
I could learn how to use it, but I don’t see any reason to do it, love Renoise too much I guess.
Writing music in DAW is not about arranging only. It’s about interface, stability and many other things in which Buzz sucks compared to Renoise. IMHO of course. And those things will negate all the positive effect from Buzz Sequencer, at least for me.
It’s just a personal thing. This thread start to remind me of eternal wars like “iOS vs Android” or “xBox vs PS”. Endless, hilarious, pointless.
xg2003 …the phrase sequencer is not meant to be an all contained capsule for patterns , it’s a phrase seq…you I can do short …long seq.with it …you could use it as a chord transposer …etc…
Reason why people don’t upload their way of working with the pattern seq…is because it really doesn’t make any sense …( the reason to show ) …just listen to the music made with renoise and you’ll hear it .
I also don’t understand why you just don’t GET INTO THE PATTERN MATRIX AND EXPERIMENT …learn it inside out …that’s all to it …it’s nothing more then an overview off the actual data in the pattern sequencer…cut /copy /paste / insert empty spaces…patterns (right click…don’t forget to click on the indicater numbers , not just on the pattern containers …etc…
What is the point of this thread anyway?
+1
Please, ‘f+d+k’, give us your wisdom on what you think about the Pattern Matrix and the Buzz Sequence Editor.
Oh, I forgot - you aren’t capable of actually discussing aspects of the user interface, so seek to silence others…
Find another thread.
It’s “more THAN”, not “more then”.
I know how to use the Pattern Matrix. It is a pain in the ass. Loads of USELESS comments here, by people who have come into this thread and contributed nothing of any interest, and only say, effectively “Stop talking about this”… Pathetic.
Not ONE person can even make a simple video of HOW they use the Pattern Matrix, even though they claim it’s wonderful, shouldn’t be talked about, and shouldn’t be replaced by the BSE. This is, as I say, like a religious cult, so I don’t expect meaningful, intelligent discussion from cult members.
Of course it makes sense. I made several videos showing both my Pattern Matrix problems, and why the BSE is better. I was able to back up my hypothesis with EVIDENCE. That’s how debating works.
Instead we have what, three posts on this very page, which are embarrassing to those who wrote them - no substance, no discussion about the topic, just “Please stop talking about this”. Why did those people even visit this thread? Because you want to silence debate, that’s why.
It is very sad how people will cling to something they know isn’t very good, at any cost, rather than even THINK about something different, which would improve it. Very sad indeed…
THIS is the point of this thread - careful, this probably scares you:
Would you like to discuss HOW you use the Pattern Matrix, carmazine? Otherwise, stop trying to ‘poison the well’ of this thread…
Perhaps you can all explain just HOW you can recognise individual patterns in the PM, purely by the little block that’s supposed to represent the pattern. How do you know which pattern is which, when you have ten different drum tracks, all of which look practically the same in the PM, because they hardly differ?
Oh wait, that’s getting a bit too practical, better not talk about that…
Let me first say that I have never tried buzz extensively. Since the Buzz sequencer is being compared to the PM here, I guess that this thread wants to point out that the buzz sequencer should be considered a better model for arranging/overview, right? I agree that arranging could be improved a lot in Renoise. The most notable drawbacks I find in the PM is that slots doesn’t tell you anything (nearly) about what is happening in the song at a particular place. Also, it won’t help you with a common task like syncing the end of a rise/sweep effect to the start of a new pattern, as you might expect from an arranger.
My first impression (right or wrong) is that I’d rather see Renoise go a different way than what is proposed in this thread - i e traditional horizontal timeline with ‘midi clips’ and samples, as seen in FL Studio and many other softwares. This model has proved being blazingly fast and productive to work with, especially for quickly laying out a song structure. Would the Buzz model be better than a traditional arranger? (or perhaps I’ve misunderstood the purpose of what is being described here)