I think the phrase feature needs its own thread

Seriously… Now we can make phrases, and transpose them throughout our tracks. Ok, that is plain sick.


This feature is so powerful. It is so amazing. This is the feature… I’m just speechless. I need to practice it for like “1000” hours LOL!!


It’s awesome, but IMO they can take it further. There’s a fundamental issue that phrases almost address, but not quite - composition on multiple timescales.

With a typical sequencer, zooming in and out lets you work at multiple timescales, but is not all that efficient for any particular time scale. Trackers are very efficient for working on one specific timescale (or two specific timescales, if you count the “pattern” as another timescale), but not suited to working with multiple in a continuous way. You can set the LPB high and do microscopic stuff (ala the infamous venetian snares vid or the hitori tori live shows), but then you have to scroll through pages and pages of data to “see” 4 measures of material. Likewise, you can set the LPB low and see a lot of data at once, but then you lose that microscopic “timbral” sequencing that you can do at high LPB.

The fact that phrases have a separate LPB from the song almost solves this, but it doesn’t because you can’t have multiple instruments within a phrase. If you’re working completely with samples, you can kluge it by using the different samples within an instrument, but that wouldn’t work if you’re working with plugins.

So my wish would be to take the feature further to realize it’s full potential - to tie together sequencing at multiple time scales in a sane way. I can’t say I know the “right” way to do this, but phrases are almost there… an independent LPB subunit that works across multiple instruments would be amazing.

Agreed, I’m amazed by this feature. It’s something I’ve wanted for years and have built kludgy versions of for myself using other tools. I didn’t know that the Renoise team was working on this so it’s a very pleasant surprise for me. Phrases is exactly the feature I’ve been wanting and really fits with how my brain makes music.

There is so much you can do now… crazy kick drum rolls that are easy to program… You can easily make something like this 32 bars for your absolutely fav prog or hard trance buildup. You could do the same thing in 2.8, but it will sound way smoother now, when you sequence them out like this


I don’t want to be a spoiler, but doesn’t the design decision “inside instrument” instead of “outside instrument” mean that’s not going to change for years? Concering the renoise code, and the song format…

I don’t see why this should take years. In terms of coding, its probably an easy thing for them to do, and its a valid point.

I don’t expect it would be easy to pull off, it would just be cool to see it.

There are some of my and others ideas… :)/>

Btw. I created phrase at home and i am almost sure, that when i entered notes outside the selected scale they were transformed into notes that are in (when i´ve pressed for example A, it has been written as an A# in phrase editor). But i´ve opened r3 in my work and now i can insert any note but it is changed during playback if it has to, so i dont know what is transformed into what.Which behaviour is normal? Is it switchable or i am missing something? thanks… Combination would be the best, see everything (so change of scale will change notes in phrase editor also f.e.)

And second question, if i have some selected scale for example C major inside the phrase, why i can not transpose it by one semitone (so insert C#) in pattern editor? I have to turn that scale off, but than it will change also behaviour of pattern. I am sure manual will answer my question, but somebody is maybe clever enough now ;). Thanks and sorry for my bad english…

I’m going to guess, that if you transpose a scale, and want to have the same rhythmic pattern vibe going on, than you will have to transpose within consistency of musical key.

For example, “C major would transpose to E minor, but would not transpose to C#”

But please… This is just a guess. Maybe there is some other reason, and maybe I am not 100% what you or me is talking about.

:yeah: :walkman:

I am almost sure that you´ve got point but i would love to know how exactly does it work. I am not good in music theory so this reverse thinking process is difficult for me. But thank you!

And why i am asking? Before R3 i´ve made some pattern and next one where melody from the first one was transposed by 3semitones down for example… This is something what is difficult with phrases as i wanna to leave a melody in same scale (cause i dont have to think if it is musically right etc.) but change it to different key (so transpose it down as i not influence intervals of these notes in phrase).

I´ve just realized that Dxxx command is maybe workaround! Have to try it, but it would be bomb and more flexible to have both these options (but need to understand first one and music theory better still, I suppose that this “restricted transposition of phrases” has something to do with circle of fifth, relative scales etc… no? ;)).

I will probably sound confused, but how do you create more than one phrase for an instrument?

Create your first phrase. Above the keyboard you’ll see a yellow box which is the phrase zone. Resize it – you’ll probably want to right-click on a keyboard key to set the root note as well. Then in the black space next to the resized yellow phrase zone, right-click and choose “insert” for a new phrase.

Ok, I see that now, thanks!

I hope they add latching for phrases and samples and that propogates through into Redux too
Synced loops Check
Synced Sequence phrases check
Now give us latch to work with triggering over MIDI and we have the ultimate performance tool ;)/>

DOH, hold is latch and already works brilliantly

For me the Phrases feature is the biggest thing ever happening to Renoise, and I absolutely LOVE it. It’s a highly unique feature that sets Renoise apart from other DAWs while at the same time extending the tracker specific workflow. Everything else in this 3.0 release is also pretty awesome, much respect to all the devs for their hard work - you guys rock!

Now I haven’t got the time to participate in the on-going discussions in these forums since I’ve been occupied with cooking, shopping and social life now when it’s Christmas holidays. But I’ve noticed that this 3.0 version seems to have stirred up more emotional responses among the users than previous beta versions did. I’ve suggested countless times that many Renoise users are simply too immature to communicate in a decent, polite manner. Now I can see that my conclusion was indeed correct. Ultimately the Renoise team has to ask themselves if such users are really adding anything of value to the project in the long run.

I say: get rid of them. These entitlement mentalities constitute a disrespectful puke on this forum and some of them are obviously only trolling. I sincerely hope that the developers are now going to focus more on the Redux plugin in the future and thus gaining a much wider and more respectful audience. So many possibilities, so much potential there…

Actually, I think the main reason why a feature such as Phrases will evoke feelings for the (obviously) premature guys is because now they’ll have to confront their own incompetence in the open. Rather than dropping pre-EQ’ed loops from their warez samples collection in a linear arranger, they now have to construct their own phrases and instruments and use some portion of tracking intelligence to apply them all in actual composing and arrangement. That’s probably too difficult for them, and that’s why they’re now bashing this 3.0 release. F-cking lamers.

I say that anybody who state that people who don’t entirely like a new release should be gotten rid of, and then also state that those users are just using warezed loops, and then conclude that those users are immature should really look into the meaning of the words immature and then irony.
Then if possible, let others have their opinion and stop being so precious.

Dude, if you care to read what I actually wrote and also take a step down from your own high horses, then you might actually appear to offer a valid point.

I’m not referring to the people who merely expected a different set of new features and were disappointed by this release. There are even alpha testers who don’t seem to like the direction Renoise has taken, and that’s just how it should be in any dynamic and thinking community - people reach different conclusions and have different opinions. I’d hate to see some kind of blind fanboyism in regard to Renoise design issues.

I’m specifically talking about the kind of people who are only being rude and disrespectful towards the Renoise team, and - by implication - also being disrespectful and rude towards all of the users who have actually spent much of their time making a strong case for such features as we see in the current 3.0 version. That’s not “different opinion”, that’s just immature behaviour. Others have also noticed this and reacted to this type of behaviour. Enough is enough.

Indeed, I hope that such users will be fewer and fewer and ultimately washed out completely because they only pollute the air, discouraging the users who actually have something constructive to say to say it. There’s a limit to how much BS we’re supposed to tolerate in these forums, and I for one am fed up with these mentalities and the amount of space and resources they occupy both here in the forums and IRL as well.

Furthermore, I’m convinced that just as much as Renoise itself intimidates and scares some people using other DAWs because of its alphanumeric workflow and higher level of abstraction, the Phrases feature introduced in the 3.0 beta increases the level of abstraction even further - thus threatening the fragile egos of lower-abstraction mentalities. Yes, I do believe this is the deeper key issue which explains why some people seem to get personally offended by this feature.

hah , that was indeed a good laugh .
Do you really believe what you just wrote ?

That is not true. Phrases like type of facility has been present in Buzz over a decade now.

In cognitive psychology it calls “straw man” type of an argument. He’s made up an image of an opponent and went on to show its complete worthlessness.

Actually for me it was pretty clear that with the ‘Pre-EQ’d loops’ phrase .xrns was more painting a picture of the worst case scenario of background for some of the bashful posts that you also must not have missed. It drives his point, about the state of the forum, which I think is not immature per se. If there is some bashing back involved it must be felt very close to reality for some readers of the message.

@genclkdiv, go EZ on the punctuation buoy. Nobody ever told you this? Almost all punctuation needs just one space, after. Like so.

With separate LPB?