Alternative Instrument Editor

I was just thinking…

Since Renoise’s instrument volume envelopes are currently still based on old technology as offered by trackers dating way back the FastTracker II days, is there such a thing as a third party solution to working around the limitations of Renoise’s current volume envelope system? What I particularly need is to be able to construct exponentially decaying release curves in a volume envelope, or where the real power of an envelope system similar to Native Instruments’ Absynth or FM7 comes in: the possibility to offset this release curve effortlessly without the need to move hundreds of points over to the right if I want to increase the attack time of the envelope.

So what would be nice is if there was a sampler of some sort in which I could load my multi-sampled wave files of an instrument, assign these to notes, and then use the sampler’s (hopefully) better envelope system to create a ‘virtual instrument’. Kind of like a VSTi, but one in which you can load your wave files. A VSTi sampler, in other words.

Does something like this exist that I don’t know about?

Have you tried tinkering with the LFO values?
(And i do not specifically mean LFO in the envelopes, but maybe an LFO Meta-device)

You can always try if VSampler has what you need (

The Envelope editor in Renoise is designed for short-time use. If you require behaviour of your instruments to last across a few patterns, you might be better off by not using the envelopes, but using effect-commands or the Automation curve. The automation curve is limited across one pattern and for the next pattern, a new one can be used (if not already assigned).

Try this link.

To name a few big ones:

Native Instruments Kontakt
Steinberg Halion
Speedsoft Vsampler

vvois, I’m particularly after the volume envelope only - not pattern volume automation.

But Native Instruments’ Kontakt seems to be right for the job. Does anyone know if this works with Renoise though?

yes, kontakt works with renoise just fine…

Kontakt rocks!! Just go for it…

OK I’ve tried Kontakt, but this sucks: As far as I know I can’t even employ a sustain point in the ADSR envelope, and the Flexible Envelope doesn’t seem to let me do it either. Does anyone with more experience with the sampler know if this is possible?

This really sucks. Even though Renoise now has an improved instrument envelope editor system with the dB values and greater resolution, it’s still a pain in the ass to have to create exponential fades with it. I really want a system like the Flexible Envelopes of Kontakt, but then allow me to set a sustain point as well. :(

The only other alternative would be to take the specific BPM of the track I’m working on (90), and create various versions of the samples and apply exponential fades on it in Sound Forge to allow for the sample duration of 1 row, 2 rows, 3 rows etc.

Thankfully I’m only working with a snare sample this time around, but for anything that has a longer duration it becomes a nightmare. I just want to have an envelope that exponentially decays in volume, with a sustain point at the beginning of the envelope. I then set the NNA to note off, so that whenever a new snare hit plays, the old one naturally fades out in volume instead of being unnaturally cut, or unnaturally linearly fades out. So why is this so hard to do?

Is there some other software that might allow me to do it?

Oh, just found the SUSTAIN part of the envelope. :D Great! :drummer:

Does anyone know if it’s possible to delete envelope points in Kontakt? Because the points are at minimum still spaced apart by a few ms, so there’s always going to be a quick increase in volume and so a loss of transient. A minute issue, I know, but with kick drums, for example, it might be noticeable.

i don’t think so … it’s not possible … but there are more VSTi samplers:


in Renoise 1.5alpha are porblems known with some of these samplers:

Kontakt/Kompakt … problems with DirectFromDisk mode and rendering … (in Renoise 1.281 too)

and i don’t know exactly: MachFive uses the UVI engine … some VSTi’s with the same engine, producing non sync notes … maybe the same problem in MachFive. (but the sync problems are only in 1.5alpha … in 1.281 all UVI VSTi’s working fine)

i think MachFive and EmulatorX are great in soundquality and features. nevertheless the best softwaresampler - but not available as VSTi (only standalone) is Gigastudio!

Thanks, I’ll check them out if I run into problems. :)

to remove a kontakt envelope point use double click on it.
… perhaps I´m of the mark ;)

I don’t use DFD but I had such problems without DFD too, until latest Alpha7, which renders my Kontakt songs without skipping any note

No, that doesn’t work. I’ve tried everything I think, but it would be like taking away the D from the ADSR curve, or the A, etc.

I haven’t had any problems rendering with Kontakt in v1.5a7, but the only thing is that the volumes aren’t the same. If I have a volume of 20 on a sample followed by a note with volume 40 a beat later, say, the difference in volume isn’t the same if I use those volumes on that sample loaded into Kontakt.

So I’ve started this conversion table:

01 10
02 14
04 1A
08 20
10 28
20 33
38 3D

The second column gives the volumes you should apply to Kontakt if you want to have a sample volume equal to the first column. Dunno, if it starts getting too clumsy I might look into other samplers, although they might have this same problem.

there is am horizontal velocity slider somewhere in Kontakt editor (can’t see it from here since I’m at work) which sets the velocity sensitiveness.

By modifying it, you can change the way velocity affects the volume.

There is also the possibility to change the sensitiveness of each volume layer with an histogram which is accessible from somewhere near the slider. If I remember correctly, there is a button on the right which symbolize an histogram.

But yes, this difference is quite annoying because it is default.

maybe a “flexible” curve will help.

@Atlantis: i think you should give NI Battery a try. from what i think that you want to do this would be exactly what you’re looking for…

VSampler works fine FAFA the demo does it. It’s bulky in use, but works.

I second that Battery ROCKS with Renoise - especially Battery v2…

Thanks for the suggestions. Will try them when I get to composing again. Doing a lot of album mastering these days.