Am I The Only Missing A "real" Eq?

Ideas & suggestions
1

And by “real”, I mean an EQ, like what you have on a mixer: frequency, Q and Gain … it’s dead necessary for mastering … could be just a simple single-band EQ, that would do nicely, since you can just create any number of instances if you need additional bands.

The EQ filters in the “Filter2” effect are no use - you don’t even have a gain control, and they don’t sound like EQs at all, even if by some remote technical definition they might be. (for example, the -15 and -6 dB EQ filter types sound more like they ADD something than filter something OUT) … frankly the EQ filter types all sound trashy, except perhaps the “PeakingEQ”, but it still doesn’t have a gain control, so it’s not really useful even though it sound pretty good.

Also, the way that the cutoff fader parameter range is rigged, it’s almost impossible to finetune the cutoff for bass frequencies.

And then of course there’s the “EQ 5” and “EQ 10”, which are the best choice for practical EQ’ing at the moment, but they’re not good for the kind of EQ’ing you need for everyday mastering, since you can’t control the center frequencies or Qs of the bands … you don’t see graphic equalizers used in studios for mastering either <_<

2

well, if there is anything out there which does require the term “alot of” to be described, then its freeware vst eq plugins. so there is no need for the renoise team to reinvent the wheel.

I suggest you go to this post :

http://80.190.246.84/board/index…7fb7d8332436ba2

and start browsing around … you should end up with 20+ eq’s to choose from, and at least one will suit your needs, I guess …

3

just to be precise, what you call a “real EQ” is called a “parametric EQ”; there are EQ which are not parametric, like for example, the ones which are built in ReNoise

4

dude, just listen to them - most of these filters don’t sound even remotely like EQs, except the “Peaking EQ”, the rest don’t sound or work like any kind of EQs I’ve ever heard of. What kind of EQ with a negative gain would make the signal louder? that doesn’t make any sense! :)

so there is no need for the renoise team to reinvent the wheel

yeah, but they already did, they just didn’t do it properly ;)

and as said, I’d rather not have to use a VST plugin for something as essential to mixing as a simple EQ - this should definitely be the supported by any serious music program, you shouldn’t need to go out and collect such essential tools from third parties before you can start composing.

5

well, not alot of people do care about mixing when they start composing, and when they start to do care about it they ahve learnt about VST and the works meanwhile. Seriously, I never heard of a musicsoftware which has good EQs built in, I just think about the infamous ones from Cubase.

6

Orion has a very nice EQ, similar to what you find on Mackie and other pro mixers, and it sounds like a real EQ too.

As said, I think any serious music program should have this feature - even if Cubase doesn’t have it, I don’t know it well enough to say if it does … hey, maybe beginners would care more about EQ’ing if the feature was there for them to explore in the first place, you think? ;)

7

I agree with minplay.
I think renoise developers should but some resources for quality of sound. (maybe you have to hire some people just for that…)
Sound quality is very essential novadays.

8

There is no way you need panning on an EQ, and there is no way you need that many parameter for ordinary EQ’ing.

Just look at a common mixer, or the Orion screenshots (on the Mixer page) - all you need is maybe eight controls for a four-band mixer … the high and low bands need only one knob for gain, you don’t need cutoff frequency for those. Two middle bands is enough (one for peaking, one for notching, or in rare cases you might use them both for peaking or both for notching etc), as long as both bands have gain, frequency and Q (in Orion, unfortunately, the Q is missing for the second middle band) …

If you know how to use an EQ, you should never need more than high gain, low gain, and two flexible middle bands - only time you’d need more is for special effects and such, but this effect would be for mixing and mastering, not for effects … we already have the “Filter2” unit for effects.

9

I can compose with pen and paper if I want to… how do you Eq that?

Totally agree.

Imho Renoise isn’t a mixing/mastering studio (even though it’s nice if those features exist) it is a Tracker/sequencer… There are lots of programs/plug-ins that are more suitable for those tasks than Renoise probably ever will be…

@mindplay

hmm, you may have some good points but going about demanding things and telling people that it is like this and that isn’t exactly bright… especially not when the first thing to remember is that when it comes to doing things there are as many ways as there are people doing them… a little bit more of that 'ol humillity wouldn’t hurt, my friend!
the second thing to remember is that Renoise is a FREE!/ $45 program put together by a small group of very dedicated people and with that in mind I think the shortcomings it has (which most of the time can be worked around) can easily be neglected…

10

We are not expert DSP programmers, so asking us to create plugins that rival some of the best and most expensive commercial effects (usually costing many times a renoise licence) is hoping for a bit too much.

11

@IoDean: I’m not “demanding” anything, I’m giving suggestions and making references to working solutions, because, as any idiot can tell, the current solution is not good. You say Renoise is not a mixing/mastering studio - of course I don’t expect to do mastering in a tracker, that would be overkill, but for most electronic musicians today, the composition and mixing process is one and the same; electronic music is equal amounts of mixing and processing, and composition. Mixing and composition have been inseperable in music software since years now (Cubase, Orion, FruityLoops etc.) and you simply can’t make good-sounding electronic music without having both. In fact, Renoise already has both, but the fact of the matter is that the mixing part just isn’t good enough, which is where I’m trying to help.

@Martinal: there is no great secret or DSP hocus pocus involved in EQ’ing - you don’t have to be a DSP wizard to apply a few simple biquad filters and get EQ results that are infinitely better than the ones in the Filter2 unit. The least you can do is expose the parameters to the user - you certainly don’t need any sort of DSP knowledge whatsoever to do that, just common sense.

to both of you:

I’m normally a nice guy, believe it or not, but quit trying to brush me off with excuses. Feel free to counter me with arguments, but don’t give me excuses, I can’t stand it. But feel free to explain why EQ’ing is not important in electronic music? ;)

Please don’t misunderstand me - I’m not making demands, I’m merely suggesting better solutions. Arguments, gentlemen - common sense. Not empty excuses. If there’s anything I can do to help, anything whatsoever, please don’t hesitate to ask - heck, I would come over and walk your dog, so you can get half an hour of peace to implement those filters! :lol:

Oh, and by the by - the graphic equalizers (EQ5 and EQ10) do sound extremely good! so someone on your team definitely does know how to implement EQ filters properly, but the guy who worked on the Filter2 unit needs to clean up his act - you can’t just implement filters and expect them to work … there is no way a properly implemented EQ filter with a negative gain could ADD something to the signal - at certain cutoff frequencies, the output signal is two or three times louder than the input signal … on a NOTCH filter … just ask yourself how that can be right? ;)

12

The EQ5 and EQ10s are "normal" biquads. And it would be easy to make a Parametric EQ out of them. In fact, it would work and sound exactly like the EQs then, with the difference that you can change the type / Q and frequency by sliders then. I will do so as soon as I find a calm minute.
BTW, I`ve already said that I will do so. I just didnt managed to do so for the 1.27 release.

About the Parametric EQ`s in the Filter Device : Yes, they suck. They havnt changed since Noisetrekker 3 and it was a bad descision to keep them in the new Filter2 device. But well, now its too late. I guess, noone ever used them so noone reported that they suck :) .

And I have to agree with mindplay here : A good parametric Filter is a must have. We should at least try to have all the basic effects as native effects in Renoise.

13

Im sure you are… :)

Not saying it isn’t… On the contrary, I agree with you, it’s very often crucial to the result of electronic music… Personally, I use things like EQ much the same way as I use instruments/sounds and thus I search for one that’ll give me the result I want… hence, just one EQ will never suffice for me (no matter the quality and how technically correct it is…)

btw, Ive got no dog nor do I have any filters to implement but if I had Id be happy to let you walk it… ;)