Anybody Seen Buzz's New Piano Roll?

if renoise ever gets a pianoroll, then at least make its graphic blocks running up-down (as seen in buzz) as opposed to the standard left-right (as seen in most other daws)

that way we can always say to people who suggest that the graphic representation of note data is just an alternative way to represent length/duration and adjusting note off’s etc: “hey, you got what you asked for”

if those people still complain that such a pianoroll isn’t really the same pianoroll as that in fl studio (or whatever), they simply reveal themselves as in fact not being interested in tracking at all

such users just want renoise to become more like other daws, and become less a tracker

yes, having a standard pianoroll in renoise would probably attract more interest from drifting people who like to test things out

but such people will demo renoise only because they see the familiar pianoroll and start working with it, but soon they’ll start expecting other features to be copied from the non-tracker daws as well

and this is really the whole problem with the standard pianoroll: it’s a bridge to a new userbase that want renoise to adapt to their workflow from other hosts (in the end it’s a race against all the other daws that renoise simply cannot win)

but if renoise instead gets a pianoroll that’s running the timeline up-down just like the tracker’s pattern editor, then we can have all the benefits of a pianoroll and still have new users focused on learning the ways of tracking

So does this thing also turn sideways?

IMHO a vertical piano roll is a complete waste of time. I’ve spent sooooooo many hours looking at patterns in Renoise, so I know what happens on the screen. (It’s like reading raw matrix-code )

If Piano Roll is ever introduced to Renoise, make it horisontal so it at least could offer a different view.

But I don’t care about Piano Roll. Patterns are teh shitz

Vertical or horizontal

Seriously though, piano rolls ARE a useful point of reference for people who visualize their scales and chords on the ivory and ebony.Vertical or horizontal is a trivial detail when it comes down to it. This one looks ok. Fair play to em I say! This just so happens to be the way most people play keyboards too!!
That said, there are plenty of interesting ways to represent scales…

Also someone (I’m too lazy to quote them now; soon to bed) said that vertical audiotracks are counter intuitive. Not if you wanted to view audio in relation to patterns and vertical note data; then they would be very intuitive.

There’s only one real solution…
I mean do I have to point out the elephant in the room here?!

Hori…mofo…zontal patterns!
“But how do we maintain the veil of chic and exclusivity?” I hear you ask.
You guessed it right to left timeline!!!

This isn’t flying in the face of what .XRNS said (I think?)
I actually agree with his point about bending to a new userbase.
All (?) someone needs to do is script the damn thing and we can put it to bed. I might give it a go, I might not.

maybe it’s just me but i never really liked the piano roll because you can only see one instrument at a time. if i try to come up with a melody i want to see what all the other instruments are doing at a certain moment in time.
a tracker is perfect for that.

Are you talking about piano rolls in general? Because i know that in sonar at least, you can view multiple instruments in the same midi editor.

well, if you suggest that the only real solution is to actually have THE pianoroll that people are used to work with in other daws, then again i’ll say that such people will probably also expect renoise to conform to other daw standards too

i.e. less tracker and more let’s-copy-other-daws

maybe the only real solution to this problem is to think outside the box completely

like: compile a new wrapper software for loading multiple renoise instances and have all the renoise data represented by horisontal pianorolls and linear arrangers ;)

well, i had FL Studio’s piano roll in mind and i don’t believe that the piano roll differs that much from DAW to DAW. the problem is that in FL Studio there is only one dedicated piano roll window that shows one instrument/channel at a time. i guess you could map different samples to specific octaves in order to see them in one piano roll view but then they would go through one channel (same fx chain) and it would be difficult to work with them.
i don’t know how it is in Sonar. maybe if you could open two piano roll windows it would make more sense. sadly i couldn’t find any videos/screenshots that demonstrate what you’re saying.

just for the record, i didn’t buy Renoise so i can say to other people “hey look how non-conformist my DAW is”. i want a solution that makes sense, not something that makes me feel special. since the piano roll is a dumb-downed version of musical notation it would make sense to align it horizontally.

Well… after some thinking I came to conlcusion it would be actually better to implement a stave/score view instead of piano roll. At least people would learn the notes :)

I agree, I agree.
I was only taking the piss really.
Personally, I’d give a “buzz style” pianoroll a go to see how it feels.
In many ways PRs are too constrained. That and they are unnecessarily large;
The thing is, people think about and visualise music in different ways, some more cerebrally, some more physically. As long as Renoise offers the workflow it already has, and people vary, there will always be a desire for pianorolls or something similar.
a real pianoroll
One way that could work is to represent note events from all tracks at once, in the colours assigned to individual tracks. And be able to set the “piano” part to highlight the patterns of different scales, ie not limit you to looking at how one track relates specifically to the Cmaj scale.

The whole reverse horizontal patterns thing was just a tasteless joke, the irony may not have come across ;)

I think if we left the development of such a feature to scripters for the time being, you’d avoid the problem of forced conformity. I don’t know how much the current LUA API would allow in terms of the GUI components.
Another way it could be done is by colouring notes in the note columns according to what scale you want and having a little reference keyboard somewhere on the screen, this would be more scriptable I reckon. ie just colouring discordant note data, red or something?

In any case, I think it’s beside the point to argue about trivialities like horizontal vs vertical, because it will always come down to personal taste, and for that reason alone, such things should (in an ideal world) be implemented so they can run X or Y.