Apache And Amen Shipped With Renoise, Legal?

there are those two widly overused breaks in the instrument collection. i never use them but it is relevant to my interest if they are royalty cleared by the renoise team.

Noone has asked royalties for apache or amen so far. The author and copyright owner of amen is apparently dead aswell. So I doubt there is much problem with it. They can be considered to be in public domain now anyway.

Are you serious? what royaliy? Nobody has claimed “ownership” of those breaks. Certainly original artists havent and others dont have the right to…

EDIT: haha, Suva beat me to it :)

so, the rules just have to be followed if someone’s there who cares?
its not legal but everybody does it?


Well… Actually claiming your rights on 5 second drum break is going to be problematic anyway. What if someone claimed his right on 4 to the floor rhythm of kick+closed hat, open hat, kick+clap, open hat? I am sure someone was the first person who used it.

its legal… You know, if for example i want to give something to public or contribute to the public domain, then there is no law that forbids it. its my (intellectual) propertie and i can do with it what i want.
Sell it or just give away.

sure. but i doubt that in the case of the amen and apache the rights where given to the public domain. or can you present some source on that case?

but this leads me to another question i have:

lets say i buy this great loop cd that allows me to use the musical content in my own work including selling etc.
lets say i just do a little changes to make it “my own work” and then give it to the public domain for free. everyone could use this loops now?

i saw some law-guy talking about that. its not just the rythm. there is also a lot of work in the setup, expensive studio toneingenieurs , equipment etc to make it sound like that. and thats the main reason we love to use this stuff. and this work is also protected by the copyright.

even freesounds has those damn breaks

Some information on this topic, can’t tell how reliable it is, though.

Amen on youtube
Amen on Wiki

You are splitting hair here. The Amen break is de facto public domain. Protecting it now would be harder than saying that word “fuck” is copyrighted and everyone using it has to pay money.

yeah, i’m off my pills. think i’m getting a little psychotic now :wacko:

It’s said that the drummer of the Winstons hated that
his solo got ‘abused for repetitive dance music’ and has put
an evil voodoo curse on it. Not sure if it still works now that
he’s dead, but fact remains he felt terrible about the fate of
the infamous ‘amen break’.

Ironic eh, how a whole genre can spawn from one sped up
breakbeat, how so many people love the drummer for it and
how the drummer hates so many people for loving it.

anyhow i try to stop using loops in general.
sience drums are so essential for my music i started drumming on my own
i use
-a roland drum pad and kick trigger for input
-some midi-ox scripting for round robin like triggering
-shortcircuit 1 for velocity layering and multichannel output
-a recorded multisample drum kit i found somewhere
in renoise of course

works great so far. i’m not a great drummer jet but i have to say it is FUN!

I’m getting a set of rockband drums soon… not velocity sensitive… but they’ll do for some simple drumuckery

The amen break has been exploited so many times that i wonder why would anyone still want to use those breaks…? i mean, com’on get over it…
We got over the TR 808 and 909 as well, folks today call it oldskool and out of fashion.

We got over TR 909 already ?! I just got used to it !!

if you want to pay for every single sample maybe you will end up like this guy.


You can not copyright a drumbeat. Ever. I know. I know a few people who tried in drumcore with making up there own rudiments…you cannot copyright drumbeats.

Not in the US no, but in Germany they seem to have other rules if i follow the link in the post above you…
But i already knew the rules regarding intellectual property in Germany are pathetic and over exaggerated.

I’m sorry, but the 808 and 909 are horribly newschool these days. I take it you guys haven’t noticed the mainstream obsession with crunk?

As for the original topic… Everyone knows that Apache is open source… and Amen is used so widely that it’s public domain.