haha what a way to jumpoff the boat!
Ok let try a last time with simple words, if you want to discuss about the sample usage in music, fair, open a thread for this. This thread question was pretty simple : “Is it legal?”.
Or, “What does the law says about this, even if no one brought this to court?”.
What don’t you get in this? Or what don’t you want to get? I’d like to think you’re a troll, because if not, hell you need some help.
So yeah, Renoise team COULD be sued by the owners of the amen’s rights. Even if it will PROBABLY never happen. Even if everyone and his grandma used the amen break. Even if commercial records got sold with the amen. Even x infinite.
The law is the law, law isn’t justice, law isn’t your moral value, law isn’t society’s moral value, law isn’t what you or “the people” think is wrong or right, law is the fucking law, law says it’s illegal, so it’s illegal, even if PEOPLE don’t ask the law to claim what they could claim, because the law doesn’t give a fuck about what is widely accepted in society, if the law was, we wouldn’t call it the law, thus we wouldn’t be able to decide if it’s legal or not, because only the law says so.
If the thread was called “is it widely accepted to sample amen brothers even if it’s illegal?”, then yes, all your posts wouldn’t have been totally out of subject.
You’re arguing in a court wouldn’t hold 5 seconds before everyone including your own lawyer would laugh (and cry) at your face. You wouldn’t be able to use the “but everyone is doing it” argument as much as the “but since everyone did it, I thought it was legal”, neither the “it’s an old record dammit”, because (and if you don’t know it, it’s a primary concept in law) no one is supposed to ignore the law, and law doesn’t recognize words as “it’s old”, the law recognize only deadlines according to what is written in the fcking law.
Now, if you come to a thread about a specific subject, and got shown where you were wrong, act like an adult, I haven’t insulted you a single time, I explained you a point that everyone here understood multiple times, but you’re obviously not willing to understand. It’s only embarrassing yourself.
i was told Hrvatski had dinner with members of Coleman’s immediate family, they basically said They do not mind.
This amen argument has now entered the absurd.
If anyone is to be sued, at any time for using and distributing the amen break, it will start at the top with people with money.
Given the option of suing Renoise and, I dunno, David Bowie who used the amen on an album in the late 90s. Who do you think will get sued?
Rinse and repeat for a very long list of very wealthy people who have capitalized on the amen. Same for the Apache break.
At worst, Renoise gets a “cease and desist” letter along side millions of other people, near the bottom of a very long list that keeps growing every day.
Relax.
Yes renoise could be sued for using amen. Renoise could also be sued for being used for making too loud music. And I can sue you for offending my ideology. Whatever, you can actually sue anybody for anything. That’s beside the point.
But, the copyright law nor any law is not that black and white. Where this court case would lead is another thing, and I dare to guess that if it ever ended up in court amen break would get the public domain status once and for all.
But anyway. The first personal attacks have flown, I say lock this thread.
I think this has gotten out of hand here. Not sure why things got so emotional. The original poster asked an interesting question, even more interesting when looked at from a theoretical standpoint. Even though the details may depend on local laws, one thing is for sure: not actively defending your copyright does not make the subject public domain. Sadly, if in doubt, the best way to go would be to stay off limits.
A related theoretical question I’ve been wondering about, would it be legal to, say, sample all the preset sounds off a keyboard/synth/vst and sell that? Like, I’d love to sample my SY22 (and some older casio shit) and offer it for downloading - but only if 100% legal. I’ve seen way too much incredible stuff happening on the net to just believe someone who’s saying “aaah, nevermind, it’ll be right, no one will care!”
I read this again. And I still have to say, stupidity.
Seriously, I drink in a park, a cop comes up to me and tells me to empty the beer. At least in Montreal that’s the case.
He doesn’t haul my ass off to prison where I wait until I make a court appearance and I plead “your honor, everyone else in the park was drinking!”, that’s called a waste of time, effort and tax dollars.
The severity of the crime? The severity of the punishment. Zero punishment. Minor embarrassment of emptying my beer in front of police.
Furthemore, mechanical royalties are like 2 cents a minute. So at 3000 registers users, Renoise owes the Winstons $60. Who is taking them to court for $60?!
Definitely, there will be cases where the cops do take someone to prison for drinking in the park because they don’t like them or they are known criminals and this is just an excuse to bring them in for other more severe issues. Same thing with lawyers who have a vendetta or a get rich quick schemes.
But “THE LAW IS THE LAW” get a big “THE LOL IS THE LOL”. Being homosexual was against the law for many years in many western countries and it stopped being illegal very recently. A heterosexual blow-job was against the law too. So yes “Your honor, everybody is doing it…” does change old obsolete laws. The LAW isn’t immune to revision. That’s called JUSTICE.
Laws about musical copyright are very recent and only gain traction because millionaire lobbyists support them. They are not the laws of physics. They only exist in the US since the 1960s. They are not absolutes. They are ever changing. Currently they are changing for the worse because of the music industry is in the grips of a death throw. But that doesn’t mean it’s forever.
EDIT: Take any “INTRO TO ROCK & ROLL 101 USA” in a university and you’ll see that up until Elvis it was an oral tradition, built on plagiarizing the blues and post civil war morphine addictions.
Yes, some people don’t drink in a park because they don’t want to take the risk. Or they don’t want to draw attention to themselves for bigger problems. If that’s you, then don’t do it. Same with using the Amen.
It’s an educated risk. Same as all the other “illegal” things that shouldn’t be illegal.
And, I’m drunk right now.
I kinda wish we could get rid of the amen break… I’m so tired of it. There are better breaks y’know?
Have a break
Have an amen
you do however, need royalty cleared Lyn Collins Think breaks.
It’s what’s known as a technicality.
i.e. if for some bizarre reason someone decided to take Renoise to court for using a sampled break, the judge would probably work out how much Renoise developers had profitted from the inclusion of the break in this revision, and you’d probably end up with a £100 fine at most and a judge telling you to remove it.
It wouldn’t happen.
And likewise, with most of the dance tunes which use sampled breaks, you’re not dealing with artists or labels who’re making huge amounts of money in the first place, so you’re dealing with small claims court levels of compensation.
Why wouldn’t a bored producer or label owner go chasing tiny copyright claims against dance music and hiphop producers?
Because for one the legal costs would dwarf any compensation rewards - (i.e. musicians would be emptying their pockets to lawyers, for pocket money at best) - and two, the damage these kind of claims would do to the labels and artists making them would be a PR disaster.
There’s hundreds of sample CD’s which use uncleared samples too. All those old Zero-G and Megabass sample CD’s which everyone used back in the day contained tonnes of uncleared breakbeats.
But in any kind of media, there’s thousands of these kinds of technicalities that you need to be somewhat aware of, but can happily ignore for the most part… There’d be very little TV, radio, internet, music production magazines, etc. if everyone was anal about these things… (they’d also become very expensive hobbies!)
Haven’t read through the whole topic but…
Why? That’s my question. Why would you want this shipped with Renoise? You can get it from dozens of sample-sites.
Not to mention it’s so overused. Don’t you want to have new Renoisers make original music? Most of the time they are not yet skilled enough to do something creative with it.
i do have one issue about the amen included.
it’s editted and pitched up.
that is just, uncalled for!!
but really, overall, seeing an amen in the Renoise Instruments was nice.
I approve.
this makes me want to try and get some of my oldskool jungle instruments in the folder.