There is some grey font in the scheme that does not want to change the color and that is not seen very well in all circumstances, but it hasn’t been a big issue so far really.
cool, thanks!!
Sorry to revive an old thread, but it seemed more sensible than creating a new one for something has been discussed before. Are there any rules about this?
I’ve just bought Renoise and am loving it, but I’m another person who finds the always-centred edit cursor very disorienting. I guess I create a mental map of the area that I’m editing at any given time, and if if this moves I have to recalibrate - even if it’s just by one line. For me this really is the only important problem with what is otherwise a fantastic program.
Reading back through previous discussions about this, I can see that it’s an issue which affects a minority of people. This is sort of surprising because trackers are the only programs that I’ve used which behave like this (or have an option for it). It would seem just as strange to me if text editors, spreadsheets, audio editors or image editors moved what you are editing based on click or move of the cursor.
In an ideal world I would have two settings. The first would unlock the edit cursor from the centre of the screen. It would then be necessary to move the cursor to the top or bottom of the editable area to scroll - the same way as your average text editor works. The second would define a ‘margin’ of a certain number of lines, so that you can always see x lines before or after the area you are editing. Hitting the start of the margin, as opposed to the first or last visible line, would cause it to scroll.
Is there any chance of adding a preference to change this behaviour? I know there aren’t swathes of people requesting it, but I would have thought it’s a comparatively easy feature to add. I understand that there are probably many more important things to focus on, but it would make a few of us (apparently crazy) people very happy indeed!
Text editors and spreadsheet editors only involve the content that you can see, they are not depending on what the exact context is while a tracker is depending on that, hence you see this behavior in every tracker:
The problem is that you are editing a line here and not a cell, or at least, Renoise is oriented in keeping track of on which line the cursor is and then which track and interprets the content real-time when you move/edit/insert data. If you insert a note, an instrument has to be triggered, a DSP effect has to be applied, not only in that track, but perhaps also on group level or in a send track, which means that at least two more columns on the very same line have to be processed. This cannot be done if the focus is just cell-based.
Perhaps some kind of cell based focus can be done when follow mode is turned off and play and edit positions are separated. (both options are configurable) but i’m not sure this will work if you insert a note, or it will mean that when you insert a note, it will be done silently without any audio feedback, because then such option sounds possible.
I didn’t actually follow everything you tried to explain here, but I get the feeling you possibly don’t understand what I, settled, and others are saying. The issue is actually extremely simple, and other mod trackers function exactly the way we’re asking Renoise to function, so it’s not as if it just can’t work that way.
Here’s an example: say my cursor is currently highlighting line 8 (the whole line, not a “cell”). I want to enter a new note on line 16 (in any channel–the channel columns are irrelevant to this discussion). The way Renoise currently works, when I click directly on line 16, the entire pattern jumps so that line 16 is in the center of my screen, exactly where line 8 was just a second ago. I find that extremely disorienting. What Rxn, settled, I, and others would like to happen instead is, when we click on line 16, only the highlight moves to that line, while the rest of the pattern remains stationary. The only reason we’ve brought up comparisons to spreadsheets is because this is similar to how spreadsheets work (when you click anywhere in row 16 of a spreadsheet, the whole spreadsheet doesn’t scroll to put row 16 in the middle of your screen. You simply click into that row where it sits, and nothing moves).
There is nothing impossible at all about what we’re asking–this is exactly the way ModPlug/Open MPT works, and I’ve been working that way for nearly 15 years.
Edit: In re-reading your post, it occurs to me that it sounds like you’re talking about editing notes live while the pattern is playing. I’m sure many people work that way, but I know I don’t, and most likely neither do Rxn or settled. I don’t record anything when the pattern is playing, I only add notes when the pattern is stopped, and then I play the pattern to see if I like what I entered or if I want to change something. In fact, this is why I love tracking so much–you don’t have to perform anything live in real time, you can craft a song note by note, going back and changing things, moving things, deleting notes, etc. at your leisure. If the way you work is by recording notes live into a playing pattern, I can see why you might think what we’re asking is not possible.
Exactly. I’m referring specifically to editing while playback is stopped. Apologies for not making that clear before. During playback it makes sense for the current position to be centred, and for the edit cursor to be locked to the playback position. If it wasn’t we’d run into all sorts of problems with live recording as suggested by vV.
If playback is stopped, however, there is no reason why you shouldn’t be able to make changes anywhere within the visible area. In this case the context is unimportant. The instrument can be played through the track DSPs with all parameters at their current value. I presume this is what happens already when you enter a note, no?
No, not editing “live” during play, but everything you do in “edit”-mode directly alters a lot of other stuff. If you change an effect column parameter, it affects either the instrument or it affects the DSP effect it may be linked to which in turn may also affect other stuff around, it is about the audio stream that has to be generated through the DSP chain and so forth.
But as i suggested:when the play and edit positions are decoupled, i don’t see any reason why spreadsheet like editing should be a problem, i’m trying to think towards a workable solution, not to weave the suggestion.
I agree that to some extent there is an issue with the context within which you are editing. As you have rightly pointed-out, the sound of an instrument in one track can be affected by other commands, but this isn’t limited to commands on the same line. It is also an issue which affects Renoise now anyway.
For example: if I set the the cutoff of a filter to 0 on line 1, play just that line, and then edit line 4, I don’t hear anything. Renoise uses value of the parameter on the last line that was played. This isn’t really a problem in my opinion. Indeed, when using automation, you are unlikely to want it to affect the sound of the instrument you’re editing.
What I would like is for Renoise to behave exactly as it does when you’re editing the current line now, but simply allow the highlight to move without moving the pattern. In my opinion the current play position has no meaning when you’re editing while the sequencer is stopped, and so in this situation it can behave just like a text editor.
P.S. Thanks for giving this some more attention 
/> I know it’s a discussion you’ve already had before!
I’m not sure why this is a problem at all.
For example, say I have three channels set up - kickbass, hihat, and snare. Let’s say that on line 8, there’s no note entered in the kickbass channel, there’s a note entered in the hihat channel with a DSP effect applied to that channel, and a note entered in the snare channel with a standard mod effect applied (volume, for example). Let’s say that my highlight is currently on a note on the hihat channel on line 24, and I decide that I want to add a note in the kickbass channel on line 8. What do I do? I click directly on the instrument section of the kickbass channel, then I press the key of the note I want to add (I also hear the note play as I press the key, but of course I don’t hear anything else that is entered on that line in the other channels. That’s fine). What if, instead of adding a note to the kickbass channel, I instead wanted to change the volume effect on the snare in that line? I click directly on the effect section of the snare channel on that line and enter a new value. Granted, I won’t hear the new value until I play the pattern, but that’s understood and isn’t a problem (I play the pattern, see if I like things the way they are, and if not, I repeat the process above to make other changes and play the pattern again, rinse and repeat).
The above describes a process that currently works just fine in Renoise–it’s perfectly possible, because it actually works that way right now. The only difference between what Renoise currently does and what I would like it to do is that, when I click on the instrument section of the kickbass channel on line 8 (or the volume effect section of the snare channel on line 8–either way makes absolutely no difference), I want the pattern remain stationary and simply have the line highlight move from one line to the other. Moving the highlight and leaving the pattern stationary vs. moving the pattern and leaving the highlight stationary doesn’t change any of the process above. I still don’t see any issue (and this is especially true since this is exactly the way ModPlug/OpenMPT works. If this behavior is impractical in Renoise, how is it that it works just fine in other mod trackers?)
I really wish I had something like Camtasia so that I could do a video comparison between this behavior in Renoise and this behavior in OpenMPT, to illustrate what I’m saying a lot more simply. I really feel like we’re talking at cross-purposes, and because of differences in our various workflows, we’re not quite on the same page.
I know OPenMPT, or at least from the time it was just called Modplug tracker. I know what you need. Let’s just put it this way:The devs can give a better idea of what such kind of change requires in the background. None of us can really see what is frankly happening under the hood.I’m just doing an educated guess based on what i notice and experience as anyone else does.
Agreed - I feel this might be a fairly easy change, but I can’t be sure because I’ve never seen the code. Can we get them involved in the discussion?
From everything I’ve gathered in various threads posted over time requesting this change, the consensus seems to be–ain’t gonna happen. No idea why. :-/
I’ve still not purchased the full version of Renoise, and this is the only thing holding me back. I’ve tried time and again to just “get used to” the stationary highlight/moving pattern issue, but it’s just too distracting and disorienting for the way I work, so as awesome as Renoise is, I’m reluctantly having to pass on it, even though I’d happily be throwing my $75 at them in a heartbeat otherwise.
Then why don’t you download and install it?
Personally I’ve not managed to grasp what vV’s objection here is. No matter where the line you have highlighted is at the centre of the screen, or somehwhere nearer the top/bottom, editing anything on that line is going to do the same thing! All you are talking about is GUI representation and navigation, no fundamental edit mode or audio engine changes here. The operation of the cursor position and how you interact with it would not change, it would take up the space of a different bunch of pixels (and not always be anchored.)
Obviously there might be other programming hurdles making it more of a difficulty, but why would having the line in a different place make any different when you do an edit on that line to currently?? It’s a bit like saying you would expect editing to behave differently if you have the top pane hidden, as you are using a slightly different part of the screen to now display the line… (Well maybe not quite but close.)
Well to be fair, vV isn’t objecting to the idea. He has simply stated that it’s a question which only the devs can answer. It’s obviously going to be a hard one to push up the priority list because there will never be hundreds of people screaming for the feature, but as I mentioned before (and as a software developer) I would have thought it’s a fairly easy change.
Any Renoise devs like to comment (please)?!
As far as I was aware, it’s not a free program, but I admit I haven’t actually looked that deeply into it (until now, I’ve never had a reason to want to use a program like that).
It has a 30 day trial looking at it. There is also CamStudio which I believe actually is free though.
I can recommend this free alternative: http://camstudio.org
Anyway… The feature in question is very easy to understand, so don’t worry about that aspect. There certainly isn’t any confusion from my side, and I’m sure the other guys (taktik, sharevari, etc) have no problems understanding it, either. You want the edit cursor to move around independently of the play position, and not cause the pattern to physically scroll or be centered around the cursor.
I’m not saying that anything will or won’t be added to Renoise. I’m simply replying in a casual fashion here, to say that the feature request has been understood, so you guys can relax a bit.
Really appreciate the response dblue! Hope on the horizon, maybe 
/>
On a side note - do you have a public issue/request tracker for these sort of things, or is it all done through the forum?
Good to hear from an actual dev (as opposed to our own little echo chamber in here 
). If this behavior were to be added as an option, I couldn’t run to the Buy button yelling “Take my money!” fast enough.