Bitwig 2 ....160 annual upgrade ...wtf

Off-Topic
21

the biggest problem is this .

Say you buy your upgrade now ,februari 2017…in december 2017 they ad this fantastic new feature , which sadly brings a lot of bugs .

If these new’ slipped in bugs’ aren’t ironed out in the next 2 months …your pretty much fucked …

Then you just shell out money worthy of another year …

The bitwig team are probably good guys , altough some developer has a repuation of abandoning things ( vember audio anyone ) ,

I like the program , in a week testing I found some bugs .

1.create lfo mod .
2. create synth nested in lfo mod .
3 . record some notes and ’ Bounce in place ’ = Silence ( same as bounce with pre fx enabled )
4. insert reverb (post )
5. Bounce in place : now works .
6.Delete reverb
7.Bounce in place : works.

In some parts it’s also so counterintuitive …I wanted to route multiple tracks to a summing track …

Works great , audio is coming trough/processed by summing track , but as soon you want to record the incomming summed tracks into the ‘summing track’ …It won’t reccord

You’ll need to create another track and select 'the summing track as input ’ etc…not a bug , but a quirky way of doings things .

You could ofcourse group all tracks and select group as input …

22

the biggest problem is this .

Say you buy your upgrade now ,februari 2017…in december 2017 they ad this fantastic new feature , which sadly brings a lot of bugs .

If these new’ slipped in bugs’ aren’t ironed out in the next 2 months …your pretty much fucked …

Then you just shell out money worthy of another year …

The bitwig team are probably good guys , altough some developer has a repuation of abandoning things ( vember audio anyone ) ,

I like the program , in a week testing I found some bugs .

1.create lfo mod .
2. create synth nested in lfo mod .
3 . record some notes and ’ Bounce in place ’ = Silence ( same as bounce with pre fx enabled )
4. insert reverb (post )
5. Bounce in place : now works .
6.Delete reverb
7.Bounce in place : works.

In some parts it’s also so counterintuitive …I wanted to route multiple tracks to a summing track …

Works great , audio is coming trough/processed by summing track , but as soon you want to record the incomming summed tracks into the ‘summing track’ …It won’t reccord

You’ll need to create another track and select 'the summing track as input ’ etc…not a bug , but a quirky way of doings things .

You could ofcourse group all tracks and select group as input …

a company which will maintain such obvious behaviour will not survive version 3.0… you are pretty much fucked in any given license model, if a company dont iron out a pesky bug.

i even think they are beware of being on the radar of a majority of 1.0 owners, which maybe will buy 2.0 instantly or soon (the upgrades look good, hope beta will verfiy this), but will wait out a veery long period before buying their 3.0 promises.

if bitwigs existence beyond 3.0 depends on this years income, which doubt is the case, this company is screwed d.o.a.

i really doubt this.

23

…

24

Bought Bitwig 2.0 at the first day. It’s a DAW dream. Every cent worth it. The overhauled modulator concept is genius. And so on, and so on. Try it first, before judging. And it’s stable already.

25

Been demoing bitwig 2 , found numerous bugs --> posted them on kvr , chaos —> timbre ( assigned to whatever you want ) has no effect anymore

If these don’t get solved in the next year , you’re gonna have to pay up .

The audioRATE side chain feature from bitwig 1 is gone ( where you effectively use an audio source as pure modulation without an envelope follower detecting peaks )

That said , the modulation system is indeed fantastic , their instruments not so .

Fm synth , they use a parabolic wave …wchich already has overtones …just modulate carrierby modulator set to ratio 1:1 , increase mod depth …I don’t know what they did…need to investigate further .

Or set FM modulator to a couple of hertz , we should get an obvious modulation in the pitch of the carrier , increase mod depth of modulator ,…hear that ?

It surely is phase modulation , feedback gives us a saw …

Don’t like their synth either …

Honestly , the new core build effects in reaktor 6 sound way better

I would gladly pay 150 euro for a naked bitwig with only the mod system and (some )effects .

IMHO It’s too expensive for what it is ,

I am glad you like it , and hope they will sell shitloads and reduce the price :slight_smile:

26

I bought the upgrade. Since they added and changed a lot, I’ve expected way more bugs. So far almost no probs. Polysynth is great. I agree: FM synth seems a bit weak (I’d use Fm8 anyway). Sampler and drum engine are simple and genius, too (e.g. drag a wave-file on a dsp chain and automagically it’s added to a new sampler instance, couldn’t be easier). I wasn’t exactly overwhelmed by the native dsp fx in v1. But I think they improved them in v2 - still have to find out. The new phaser is really great.I like how they improved also other things like the GUI, pinnable buttons, the media browser + library and all that stuff. Overall Bitwig has an incredible workflow, excellent envelope editing, best graphical feedback and for creative sound design and electronic music it’s one of the best DAW, if not the best right now. I’m completely on bitwig, now.

BTW: chaos -> timbre whatever seems to be fixed. Guess your version was a beta version ?

27

Chaos —>timbre is not fixed .

Create synth , choose expressions as modulators , select the timbre and assign to filter cutoff .

Now go to your clip , insert some notes and select the timbre/choas control …introduce some chaos/randomness , your filter cut-of should now change according to the chaos settings , but it does not

Nothing changes …soundwise that is .

You have to change the timbre handles ( insert more then 1 breakpoint per handle ) in order to hear the changes .

The bug has already been confirmed on kvr …and I won’t register on the bitwig forum .;

Maybe you could do it :slight_smile:

5o8gg9.jpg
5o8gg9.jpg1599×866

If you look at the screenshot , the timbre (controlling cutoff ) handles are positioned by the chaos parameter, but they won’t execute any changes …you need to insert at least another breakpoint per handle …

Try it out yourself , experiment with the handles …there’s something fishy goin on …mix /max …rising descending values …don’t make any sense

28

Ok, I see. Maybe it’s no bug at all ? Maybe it’s a feature: right click on expression modulator. disable “Timbre is relative”. Now you hear a change soundwise. Problem seems to be that Timbre is relative by default. Also, if “Timbre is relative” is enabled, you can draw a curve in expression envelope editor and then also hear a change soundwise. Without a shape, cut off just flickers a bit, but is reset immediately to zero (?). Maybe this is not intended behaviour.

29

Right click timbre is relative …wOOOoooow

Fuck me …seriously :badteeth:

GIGANTIC FACEPALM

thanks for pointing out

30

But I still don’t understand what “relative” and “non-relative” means exactly in this context. Searched the manual, but so far no answer. Strange.

31

Well that it’s relative to the knob position , the first point of the handle = initial point of the parameter.

This all makes sense when your using next gen .controllers as seaboard/ roli/ Linn etc…when using the depth/z axis …

Say your cutoff is @ 12 o’clock and you assingn timbre mod ( 180 ° pos.modulation )

If you then draw a timbre handle going from 100´% to 0 ,it goes from it’s intial cut-Off value to a negative .,iow modulation is not added

If timbre is set to NON relative , it would go from full modulation --> back to it’s initial state.

It’s best to draw some ’ V ’ and inverted ’ V ’ shapes to hear it …

Tha’ts why the chaos didn’t work on timbre , because the random values of the handles were always equal the initial value of the modulated parameter , non relative fixes this

32

But I still don’t understand what “relative” and “non-relative” means exactly in this context. Searched the manual, but so far no answer. Strange.

Hi Airmann

I have tried the 2.0 demo and I’m surprised by the great similarity with Renoise.It’s all very neat in Renoise’s GUI style, but with a much more modern GUI.I have a doubt. In the configuration of two monitors, can not the top menu of the second monitor be hidden?I find it strange to have 2 identical menus taking up space on both screens, when it is enough on a single screen. Do you know anything about this?I also think the price is expensive, but Bitwig 2 looks very good.

I’m glad you’re happy. I suppose you do not feel as abandoned as in these forums and with Renoise.At the moment, the Bitwig Team seems to promise future improvements and seems to comply.

I just expect some offer at half price or something later, and thoroughly test the demo along with versions with bug fixes nearby. Then, I may be encouraged to buy it.I also use FL Studio, but Bitwig is starting to like me a lot.The previous version I did not finish liking, and had more problems to display correctly in multimonitor configuration.With version 2 it seems to work better.But I still do not understand why two identical top menus appear.It’s a waste of space.

I mean the first line of buttons.

33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAmlguL0yUI

34

Well, in my opinion Bitwig delivers most of the things I’ve missed in Renoise. E.g. multi project support, wav tracks, proper envelope editing and so on, and so on. And they adopted a lot of approaches and features from Renoise and also Ableton. That said I don’t want to discredit or bash Renoise here. Renoise was a great experience for many years. I had a lot of fun. It’s still rock solid. Best tracker on the market. But the technical wheel has turned on during the last years. In contrast Renoise development definitely lowered speed. It’s a much more smaller project, less man power, cost less money, a lot of people still love it and produce cool stuff with it. I still love the scriping possibilities in Renoise. Overall it’s very well done, and I think taktik is a genius programmer. I always admired how clean and stable Renoise was.

But I’ve definitely seen the future, and I don’t want to live in the past and wish for feature x and feature y anymore. That’s all I have to say, and Bitwig 2.0 is total fun and provides very easy and comfortable migration for ex tracker guys like me.

All technical questions belong to the Bitwig KVR Forum. I doesn’t feel good to hijack this forum for that. And yes, this forum is IMO better than the KVR solution. Indeed the Renoise forum is legendary. I wish Bitwig had a forum like this.

35

That’s all I have to say, and Bitwig 2.0 is total fun and provides very easy and comfortable migration for ex tracker guys like me.

That’s something I struggle with , not having that tracker interface / the vast sample mangling capabilities .

36

Oh yes I really miss the tracker interface for entering notes + the huge null-lined analyzer in bw2. And the steep filters! So much good in renoise, a pity there isn’t already a solid 4.0. Kind of blasphemy…

37

That’s something I struggle with , not having that tracker interface / the vast sample mangling capabilities .

TBH I don’t miss it that much. Rather, I enjoy entering note lengths / length and start variations, especially for chords. So much easier with piano roll. Also creating drums with drum machine is superb. And if you miss pitch slides and all those stuff: use sampler and micro pitch expressions. And for mangling capabilities: automate sampler, use envelopes, slice and cut clips, warp/repitch,stretch, reverse them, do fades, cross fades and so on. Renoise has not more mangling capabilitites. It’s just different and Bitwig has a none-destructive workflow. At least that’s my experience. If you want it destructive: bounce in place. Renoise Sample editor was really great, though. Also the spectrum analyzer. I miss the spectrum analyzer.

Regarding the steep filters: 4xLP and such stuff is also available in Bitwig. 8x is not, but for that and for linear filters I use Fabfilter Q2 anyway.

38

I don’t know how long you’ve been using renoise ,so I can only speak for myself .

After more then 10 years of use , …the tracker interface has become a second nature …

I am a fairly good keyboard player , so yes …I could use any other program and record stuff…but for drumprogramming there’s nothing that comes close.

My 2 cents .

And let’ be honoust …the filters in BITWIG …yikkes …especially the ladder …aliases at high resonce .

I am not convinced by the underlying modular engine , ( spoiled by reaktor I guess ) .

Said it before , a naked bitwig + modulation @ half the price and I would consider it .

Happy music making …we’ll see you back when renoise 3.5 drops :slight_smile:

39

I loathe this, only app I do this with is Photoshop and I’m not even a designer, I just need it to do some work :frowning:

40

I don’t know how long you’ve been using renoise ,so I can only speak for myself .

After more then 10 years of use , …the tracker interface has become a second nature …

I am a fairly good keyboard player , so yes …I could use any other program and record stuff…but for drumprogramming there’s nothing that comes close.

My 2 cents .

And let’ be honoust …the filters in BITWIG …yikkes …especially the ladder …aliases at high resonce .

I am not convinced by the underlying modular engine , ( spoiled by reaktor I guess ) .

Said it before , a naked bitwig + modulation @ half the price and I would consider it .

Happy music making …we’ll see you back when renoise 3.5 drops :slight_smile:

Well, I was on onboard since Renoise 1.8, that’s quite a while, now. I like a lot of things in Renoise like copying a drum pattern with Ctrl-P and so on, too. But I think the Bitwig midi editor drum view/mode is much more compact, and it’s easier to see the events/notes in relation to each other. In Renoise the tracks are wider than the compact midi event lanes in Bitwig. If you use many drum tracks in Renoise it’s difficult to keep overview. Much more scrolling needed, no zooming support wether horizontally nor vertically. Indeed I often lost overview while editing more complex drum parts in Renoise. No color coding, all tracks look the same.

Ok, I use the mouse much more in Bitwig for event editing, but nonetheless I’m fast. And I would be even faster If I would use a midi keyboard/drum pad. And I can use the PC keyboard, too. E.g. for microshifting events. That’s not possible in Renoise. You simply can’t shift a note/drum event a few milliseconds in time. There’s no keyboard shortcut nor mouse support for this. You always have to do it indirectly using delay values, OFF event and such stuff. Totally cumbersome. Do a hand made shuffle in Renoise vs. Bitwig. Bitwig is much more easier.

@Ladder: I haven’t noticed, yet. But such filters are often a matter of taste. Maybe aliasing is intended coloring (?). E.g. I didn’t like the filters in Renoise too much. Since 3.1 they were improved, though. Overall I assume the dsp’s in Bitwig are derived from vember audio surge (Klaas). If they are good and fit in, I use them. Otherwise I use external stuff. Native DSP Quality is actually the least important DAW argument for me, because there are so many good plugins on the market. Ok, the better integration of native stuff is an argument, though.

@Renoise 3.5: if current development speed stays the same this will not happen before 2021. And in 2021 we’ll see Bitwig 3.x for sure. :slight_smile: …

But finally I agree, regardless if Bitwig or Renose… having fun and making music is what should matter most ^^