IMHO i think it would make more sense to have the waveform in the automation window,it will also help so it doesent clutter up the pattern arranger
I think automation and audio tracks should be shown in the matrix vertically (optional view setting)
I think this would be the cleverest solution as i think the matrix has the potential to become a full blown clip pattern based sequencer and trigger system
Bungle: The idea about a clip-based matrix is very cool!
But what I like about Syphus’ suggestion is that you are working in a nice big window. Anyone who has ever worked in a 3D graphics program like Maya or XSI knows how nice it is to work with automation and function curves in a big zoomable window. Automation and persistent sample visualization/editing could live in a view that is LIKE the sample editor, but not necessarily IN the sample editor.
But I like that clip-based matrix idea too…
There are so many different opinions about how the waveform view should be… It’s really hard to finally decide what to do
That my dear friend is indeed a good idea
Has anyone seen a tracker for PDA/Iphone called sunvox? It shows automation overlayed ontop of the note data in the same track in the pattern editor (its transulcent so you can see the note and effect commands through it)… thought that was a pretty cool idea…probably someone mentioned already.
absolutely perfect visualisation, YES PLEASE MR RENOISE
ive been working on remixes and this would have made it so much easier
theres realy no point in hiding audio tracks in some other window (as some people have suggested)
i did ask for this quite some time ago and got some very unpleasent responses
tracker/daw, who cares what its called, its for making music and thats that
Please renoise devs just do it
the vertical is more logical but teh horizontal would look better…vertical just looks wrong somehow ah reckin.
as for automation, check out this video from 1 min 20 secs in. this kind of automation could work overlayed on a waveform or just over note data.
i think a horizontal alternative would be a good idea but a vertical layout makes so much more sense for renoise imo. having things advance in two directions at once is kind of counter-intuitive.
the primary thing that made me interested in trackers is that you can view a lot of data simultaneously side-by-side and it would be great if wave forms could be viewed like this as well.
Having played with Renoise a bit more, i don’t need a wav view in the tracker. As an aside, having wav view in the automation or pattern matrix are intriguing ideas.
Be that as it may, what i really need is the ‘persistent sample’ thingie already mentioned; to be able to go to any part of a song, and the long samples which were triggered at the very first note of the first pattern (or whichever previous point in the song); they all play from the current location, without constantly having to go back to the point where the samples were originally triggered.
With this, the user could also loop a given pattern, and then go into the sample editor, and there would be an option for viewing/editing the current pattern section of the sample, and whatnot. Having a ‘from the trigger point, by pattern delineation’ viewing option in the sample editor would be great. In other words, being able to see the pattern borders as they apply to the sample, all in relation to where it’s being triggered.
Also, when cutting and pasting in the sample as it plays, for it to be able to keep on playing, without going silent and requiring retriggering as it does now (at least on this machine); that would be great.
Anyway, having something like what i’m describing above, with perhaps a ‘zoom patterns in and out’ feature in the sample editor, and optional ‘pattern border’ markings (as mentioned this could possibly be in the pattern matrix); that’s about all i really need.
As to whether this added functionality in Renoise would require a hardware upgrade on my part; that’s another question altogether.
Anyway, the mind boggles at the various directions this could all go. There are probably some obvious design issues regarding what i’m speaking of, but the ‘persistent sample’ thing is my own #1 request for Renoise.
As it is, Renoise sure is a fine and dandy program. Make long samples (audio tracks) easier to work with and Renoise becomes a veritable bees knees of DAW software.
I second the recommendation of mrblitz000. Having vertical wav in pattern editor is cool idea, but would be of almost no practical value until the so-called “persistent-sample” feature is added.
I currently mix long instrumental recordings with my music, and it is a real pain to have to always start at the very beginning of the song to see if the audio is lining up well near the end.
I read this in the Ableton Forums (googling for Renoise, this is about Autoseek) and had a eureka moment.
We don’t need to support audio recording in the current tracker tracks. All we need is a new type of track (think Audacity) that we can insert in between tracker tracks!
Yes, the autoseek is not suppose to replace the basic functions of audiotracks. It’s just a simple unique renoise feature that fits the standard tracker-tracks beautifully.
I really hope we will get standard audio tracks sometime as well.
Disk streaming and the visual feedback, split merge clips, automation on clips etc is just simpler to use with standard audio tracks.
What I’m not sure about is how audiotracks would be implanted in renoise. Either directly in the pattern editor, or in a separate arranger window. Or both…
that’s my first post
i’ve come to renoise after years of using traditional DAWs and i’m totally impressed. it’s just like good old ft2 (it was my first music software ) brought to the XXI century and it works on my linux box like a charm
the only missing thing are audio tracks - for sure. IMO the only solution which would work in a tracker and wouldn’t ruin it’s workflow is vertical audiotracks in patter matrix.
so what would be needed?
- new kind of a track - audiotrack which is seen only in pattern matrix and mixer
- separate grid in patter matrix for the audiotrack
- ability to zoom patter matrix verticaly and horizontaly
- automation lanes for audiotracks - there are two ways of doing that:
a/ same as it is done now but a lenght of the automation lane is not pattern lenght dependant but song lenght dependant
b/ addidiontal automation subtracks in pattermatrix but this can get totally messy so IMO the a/) option is better
- disk sreaming for audiotracks
- ability to view audiotrack in sample editor - sample editor must be able to load really long samples without limits it has now
just my 2 cents
wow, awesome mock-up. i like your idea aswell. IT WOULD BE SO COOL!
but it could get a little cramped… the pattern matrix blocks are tiny after all… but the original post idea gets in the way… GAH! THIS IS HARD! pulls hair
+1, this is a great solution IMHO.
I think it needs to be visible in the pattern editor, and potentially resizable width-wise. I would use it in that context, for example, to ensure by eye that vocals synch to pattern editor lines, or to punctuate the audio track using other sounds. It would also pave the way to enable Sony ACID-like rearrangement of loops. (And for the grand finale, add pitch-control et voila, the next wave of awesome )
i agree but it mustn’t be mutually exclusive. afterall, note data is visible in the pattern matrix as it is.
@maes, agreed. Pattern matrix cell heights will then need to be proportional to pattern lengths to avoid warping of the waveform.