Breaking design consistency : the hardest choice

General Discussion
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This topic is made to be refered to every time someone goes like : “why don’t renoise do that ? Pianoroll ! Multimike’d (guilty on that one…)………”

Check that amazing deep analysis of Reason’s design :

TL;DR…(more like too long;didn’t watch) :
Reason was amazing because everything behaved in a predictable and consistent way. BUT, this also introduced limitat

ions. So the problem was : how to break limitations without making a complete unlearnable mess ?

Same goes with renoise… but with significantly less ressources.

And we should take a moment to appreciate the smart move that was Redux : encapsulating the consistency and allow user to use it anywhere

2 Likes
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Simple, just make regular updates, or don’t hide and just give “discontinued” status and dont milk money from new users with last update in 2016. Devs are unfair and coward.

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Dude. This reply is… :man_facepalming:

First off : 80€ for these features and this stability is CHEAP (Just take a look at the DAW’s prices). Providing a product with a great price/value ratio isn’t milking.

Secondly : Have you just READ my post ? Renoise, as it is, is almost perfect (except few improvements like hi-DPI screens…) and any major updates would require a great deal of planning and that’s far from simple.

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Renoise is a far of perfect at this time. It need updates to be modern, all know that!
Renoise not so stable anymore with some new VSTs and no VST3 support.

Do you wanna cheap daws:
Mixcraft 8, Mulab
And for free: Cakewalk (exSonar).

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From the first post I thought this thread might turn out to be constructive.

Nope, of course somebody hijacks it to complain with the same old tired complaints, as if nobody is aware, because we definitely don’t have 10 threads about that already filled with 50 instances the same complaints.

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Yeah, that’s my feeling exactly.

Renoise is a unique gem, it’s lighter and more stable than most other stuffs out there.

I don’t know what’s wrong with people when it comes to software… I mean, the electric guitar has had no major upgrade in decades,… but nobody complains about it !

It’s good to ask for improvements… but you got to appreciate what you have when it’s good

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Well, the OP again started this war again, implying people who want updates to Renoise are wrong, since Renoise was a design wonder. Then your argumentation was pretty weak, also implying that some standard additions would somehow turn the workflow into a “complete unlearnable mess”. What a nonsense. If you posted that in 2015, I would have kind of agreed, expecting to have regular updates. So I can understand the post of herodotas. You provoked, he reacted. You yourself created that war again.

The main point for a good workflow is the GUI design, and that is pretty good in Renoise, so none of any additions would break the workflow.

Regarding Reason, I wonder why Propellerhead did not convert Reason into a super VSTi instead. Now they can load VSTs into Reason…

In fact I once posted a lot of suggestions, how Renoise actually could be simplified, since in some areas it is very redundant.

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You know what, quite frankly, if I were the lead dev of renoise stepping into this forum, I’d just flip the bird to y’all and get myself a more satisfying job.

You don’t realize how toxic this forum has grown, do you?

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if I were the lead dev of renoise stepping into this forum, I would announce an update will be available this year. People are buying Renoise because of this:

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You’re a bunch of idiots. Save some money. Buy Ableton Live. Go ruin another forum.

I really hope taktik has another better job

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Save some money. Buy Ableton Live.

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Taktik is working on an update, it will contain bugfixes, a HiDPI GUI and also improvements, as he stated. And no, it will not turn Renoise into an “unlearnable mess”, it will turn it back into an enjoyable, very nice tracker DAW. He wrote that at beginning of this year, so be a bit patient.

Regarding the OP, yes, I find your post pretty useless and provoking, and I think you got the correlating reaction.

Also I still have no idea what Reason has to do with it, since I consider Reason as a real design mess, visually and conceptual.

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Where? The only attempted wars are coming from you and herodotas. OP tried to open a discussion. Not about bug fixes and VST3 and HiDPI, but about how a DAW that started with specific unique design principles can grow into a conventional one without becoming bloated or difficult to learn/use.

But I guess anyone who discusses renoise that isn’t outright criticizing it is seen as an attack on you and your opinions. OP’s only mistake was responding to people who are derailing the thread with this tired BS.

If you don’t see the discussion value of the OP then you don’t have to respond. The only ones provoking people are you and herodotas. And LofiMat literally just spamming memes.

Fuck is wrong with this forum?

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I think that’s a very interesting question.

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tHE KING OF LOFI ia NOT spaming as all memez are related to this useless diskussion

AND

REMEMBER also the LofiMAT started the only positiv, contributing tread in here for a long time

AMD

the only positiv thread were Taktik atleast gave a kind of response regarding the update - even it was a bitz mysteriouz or whatever :grinning:But still my TopTenpost is more usefull than anything folowed.

Dank

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I am completely ok with the topic, since I know Taktik is developing right now and I am sure it will be great, as any concentrated work he did, so I am happy with the current situation.

But I found it very curious that the OP was already insulted on a reaction he himself provoked, and I wanted to give him a hint why he gets a hater answer:

Somehow implies that Renoise is perfect and does not require even a single update oder improvement - which is really utter nonsense.

This is even a complete wrong assumption, since Renoise’s design is so strict that nothing really could ruin it, so I also wondered about the comparison to Reason, which has completely different design problems than Renoise.

Here you even expect the reader to praise the lord for a thing happened in 2015…

The style of the OP’s post is frankly provoking and also ignorant for people who did not yet realize that Taktik really is working on an update, and haven’t really seen any update since late 2015 (3.11 does not count, only were some randomly collected minor bugfixes), and may suffer from really annoying bugs in the Mac version, etc.

So why not instead posting black/white views and being quickly insulted, try to reformulate in a more peaceful, non dividing way, inviting anybody to discuss the topic?

But I will shut up now and “enjoy” the show in here, maybe only answer some newbie’s questions or answering my friend 4tey, since you seem to be very unhappy with my critics.

I think you can see a change in any forum, only other forums has moderators. It is a new generation of people, also maybe heavily influenced by the communication style of social networks? Also even more international, so a lot of cultures come together. I also kind of miss the more on-the-point, well thought, kind of mathematical old style it used to be in here.

1 Like
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Dude, my original post was just “Hey, this video is a great analysis. Also let me explain why I thought most of it could apply to renoise”

And… nothing else really.

So, your re-interpretation of my post is pretty… mh… surreal.

As for the other guy that dug up some old post of mine were I was asking for stuffs… Dude : you have too much free time.

Yes, this forum has grown worse and these spoiled kids consumer behaviors are a real problem : “more more more… and if you provide the wrong stuff, we’ll mock you even more !”. It has discouraged so many great projects over the years…

Spreading negativity just for the sake of a quip… that’s childish…

(also, thanks to the people who took time to point out the overreactions)

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na loggn - kein thema!