Comparison To Skale-tracker ?

General Discussion
61

What I meant was indeed the hardware that run the software = the computer… and that SoundTracker was much more impressive on an 7.16MHz Amiga500 than Fasttracker was on an 166 MHz Pentium. So I was acctually talking about software aswell… ;)

I was wrong when I said 3 years. The first version of Med was actually released in 1989, 2 years after soundtracker, but it wasn’t until version 2, one year later, I came in contact with it… ;)

But one amiga and a hardware-synth could acctually br cheeper than a PC back then ;)

Octamed Soundstudio could play 64 tracks, but only with soundcard or synths connected to the computer. It could play 8 tracks with the internal sound-chip.

62

No. It could play 64 sample tracks, but with a crappy 14 bit emulation of some sort, even though it the hardware only was 8 bit.

63

Ok, I belive you :) Something that I never used though, 64 channnels must have had souned very poor :P I thought even 4 channel gave bad sound on the amiga. :rolleyes:

64

As far as I know, the internal music chip in Amiga was able to play 4 channels of 8-bit 22khz sound. The sceners weren’t satisfied so they did miracles to produce software capable to produce better numbers. I heard thet the developer of this chip almost lost his councious when he saw, that sceners were capable of getting 9 channels of decent quality 44 khz 14 bit sound. :) . On old computers like Amiga and C64, where upgrading the internal hardware was a big problem programmers (mostly sceners) seeked for various hidden features of the internal hardware. C64 had 0.9 mhz CPU, but sceners there knew how to play 16 bit samples on it, produce 640x400 graphics with 256 colors etc.

I downloaded OctaMED and ran it on emulator some time ago (I’m really interested in history of trackers). I have to agree with Twilek about it’s interface. It is much more modern than FT2’s.

To Kricke:
OctaMED Soundstudio used interface based on the Amiga graphical operating system. Like in most modern music programs there were windows there, you could change the layout of the parts of the interface, on the top of the screen there were those “file view…”-ish typical menus… Soundstudio looked almost like Windows-based application, like MadTracker, ModplugTracker, but it was infact not just a tracker, rather a powerful music creation application. From the timw I saw this program my opinion about most pc trakcers have changed greatly… I really suggest downloading WinUAE (if you don’t have access to real Amiga), Workbench (the Amiga operating system) and OctaMED as well as some other program, just to see how the evolution of trackers is going now.

65

Yeah, comparing to the capabilities of the machines, you maybe should expect more from FT2. But still people thought it was great. I guess it’s like walking in stairs, you can’t take too big steps… Take small steps at a time :)

But back then it was probably cheaper with only an Amiga, than an Amiga + Hardware Synth as well :) And later, why people chosed PC rather than Amiga + Hardware Synth, is probably because on a PC you could do alot of other stuff than just make music.

And… Amiga + Hardware Synth is much more Hardware than just a PC. You cannot use Software without a PC for instance… :)

66

You probably downloaded a new version, much newer than something from 98 :) If no, well, Unmodern doesn’t necessarily mean bad iether. Personally I think FT2 was a very suitable title of the program, because you could make music very fast. And if not, well it is also a matter of taste… Some people find it very hard to work in Renoise as well, even though we think it’s great.

Yeah, but like I’ve said all the time… You did only need a PC to run FT2, octaMED and other “powerful musictools” you need Amiga/PC (whatever) AND other stuff…

And I guess that’s why FT2 became a classic; in the middle of the 90’s and forward the PC’s begun to invade every normal peoples homes, and then FT2 and such programs were the most convenient way, because people already had PC’s for other stuff.

67

eh? the development of octamed on the amiga was ended 1996… so, I do not think so… sorry to say this but it seems to me like you haven’t realy read our messages very well ;) I think this argumentation have got abit off the right track.
Anyway, I just have to make some parts more clear:

  • You could run octamed with only an amiga aswell, but it was the only tracker that realy supported MIDI, and was therefor the obvious choise for tracking-people with synths and other hardware, but that does not necessarily mean that it could only be used together with synths. As johan did mention you could make mod’s with 64 channels on just one Amiga, without any external hardware…
  • Nobody denies that FT2 got popular. Similar to that noone denies that windows is popular today. That doesn’t realy signify that windows is the most userfriendly, advanced and most well built os ever…
  • You could do much more things on the amiga than just music. I used mine for the exact same things as I use my PC today: games, surf the net, chat on irc and icq, phone bbs’s, programming, word processing etc etc…
  • The reason why people did chose PC rather than amiga was because the amiga was dying, the amiga didn’t die because that it was a bad computer, the architecture of the amiga was much ahead of it’s time, but the company that once owned that machine and the patents was managed by the most incompetent people in the whole computer-history. But that is another story…

However, it is time for me to jump into the bed now. I’m going on a business trip tomorrow morning and wont come back within a week or so, so this is probably my last message to this discussion for a while ;)

68

[quote name=‘twilek’]

Yeah, the same company never released a computer named C65, which was meant to be a faster version of the same computer as C64. Somebody counted, that using similar techniques like on C64 one would be able to get 1024x768 resolution on this computer even with full color palette…

69

I downloaded Skale tracker for the first time today and fooled around with it.
Before I used Renoise I used Digi Booster Pro in the Amiga B)
For myself I can stil say Renoise is the tracker for me.
On both Composing and Live performance.

But I think we should be glad to have an other tracker out there making other people happy. Amen.

70

I’ve several times stated that the pc-version is just crap ;) you can’t even compare it with the amiga-version, it is like 2 different programs. And I think DDspeed clearly explained that you should download a amiga-emulator to run octamed on, and it feels a bit longwinded to me to run the pc-version thru an amiga-emulator on a pc :D lol ;)

71

I just can’t believe people like those claiming “go renoise!!” on Sk@le’s forum still exist… I just can’t believe there are still damn faaking deep nerds who would just hate you because you don’t use or like their favorite program… Any idiot like that should die in the minute, just to please me :)

I’m personaly in love with Renoise, and what I’m currently doing with is I guess close to impossible to make with Skale but who cares ??

I think a program like Sk@le mind be very useful, for instance, i NEED it to produce XM files for WORK without having to:

  1. stick under win98 shit
  2. use programs I really can’t handle like Mad Tracker or Modplug Tracker (eww! :) )

For each need there is a program, even if I almost never use it, I’m glad Sk@le does exist. Because sometimes I NEED the oldschool ability to save as XM.

As for insane selfish nerds saying it’s scandalous that Renoise is for sale and that it’s the “microsoft of trackers”, like Looza, this drives me mad to a point I could wanna kick someone’s ass:). It is just NORMAL that Renoise is not 100% free for many OBVIOUS reasons I won’t even bother to explain here since the clever ones among you will already know them :D

72

There’s an edit post button for a reason :lol:

73

Thanks for the trick Blaster :)

74

I believe most of those people are 14-year olds who have yet to discover that things like food and a place to live comes at a cost. And in particular that time as well is a limited resource for most people (with a life).

75

…and about the “Jabbanoising” forum filter on Skale tracker’s site (if you write the word “renoise” intot he forum, it will be automatically subistituted with the word “jabbanoising”), I have registered jabbanoising.com :D

76

haha :D

77

And when the sk@le-staff see this they will change the pseudo-name to something completely different, and you will get another domain to register :rolleyes: :D

78

…okay, four pages about competition, what about support?

People might wanna ask me why I post it into ‘this’ forum and not into a forum of another tracker.
The answer: I feel that this community will rather understand me and be more tolerant.
In other words: I’m pretty satisfied with Renoise and its community so I hope that none comes and says: “You’re asking for support? So you don’t like Renoise?? Go and change your software, we don’t need you!”

So far the relationship of one of thousands of users to Renoise and the community. Now the thing I want to mention:

I know, a lot of people would like to tell me “dream on” but here is my dream :rolleyes: :

What about supporting >somewhen< other modern file formats?
This would mean less competition and more cooperation with other coders. I do see that Renoise is not like Micro$oft, that’s why I dare to mention this support thing at all.
I think it’s good for the progress of Renoise if a musician can use one software to open and use all kind of files.
That would mean you don’t have to switch between different trackers, that would mean a kinda all-in-one and all this would make Renoise more userfriendly than it is already.
If someone is about to misunderstand me: I’m not asking for compatibility, retro, ‘go scene’ and however you’d like to disclaim it.
I’m saying >somewhen< (maybe in 100 years) Renoise should be able to open .mt2’s, SkaleTracker modules, etc…
For those ones who see competition as a motivation: There will be competition. There are thousands of people using billions of different programs which actually offer the same abillities. So I wouldn’t worry about the loss of any competition.

79

I think that MOD, XM and future coming MID importing will be enough.

Since ReNoise is the fastest developing tracker, it’s the one the other trackers should support.

Skale is still in beta so noone should dare trying a SKM importing before 1.0 stage.

MT2 format is public, but there is also a reinforced antipiracy policy which prevents modules made with a pirated version of Madtracker to be opened, so there could be problems with some secret stuff.

BUZZ machines were supported, but there was no economic agreement with BUZZ author.

MIDI import would cover all the sequencer category.

So what’s left?

80

I’m not against the fact, that other trackers should support .RNS.
But I already mentioned why I posted my suggestion into the Renoise forum. It’s just the talk about improving a software. Now it can be the best software you can ever get but you still can improve it.
If I’d want to suggest it to Yannick or Bak, I’d go there.
I’m making the start here. And I’m not saying “do it now!”…so there’s enough time left for a stable version of other module formats. And I said something about cooperation. So difficulties can be solved if the coders cooporate.

I like jabbanoising.com btw :)