Concept: Zoomable Pattern Editor

[vvoois (vV)]

@crytek

Can this thread be closed now? I mean, this inspired the pattern matrix thing in 2.5. No further discussion needed innit?

No, The matrix is not the pattern zooming thing that was promised. Not even close at all.
There is definately need for zooming on subdelay level. (that would mean 255 sublines in the ultimate zoom mode).
Specially if you could perform multiple commands and note triggering on that level which is currently not possible.

[Conner_Bw]

The word “promised” is quite strong.

For the record, with the exception of Scripting and OSC, nothing (that is to say no feature whatsoever) has ever been promised. No one ever used the word promise. Only discussed.

[vvoois (vV)]

@Conner_Bw

The word “promised” is quite strong.

For the record, with the exception of Scripting and OSC, nothing (that is to say no feature whatsoever) has ever been promised. No one ever used the word promise. Only discussed.

Nopes, no one ever used the word indeed.
But you got to admit, this is quite some promising statement :

@Conner_Bw

Usage of the new delays & Future plans:

In tandem with the new LPB settings, this means you can now place/humanize notes in a resolution that has never been possible before. But this is only the beginning: Future versions of Renoise will allow you to “zoom into a line” and directly place notes in this 256 subline grid. So you will be able to, for example, program retriggers manually with volume/pan changes, zoom in, edit them, zoom out again and continue at the resolution you where before.

http://www.renoise.c…96&#entry131696

And if ReVisIT can pull this off, why couldn’t Renoise?
The question remains from “Which” future version shall we enjoy this though…

[bedawang]

woeha, Renoise crashed while registering ReVisIT in a totally empty song:

VstPlugs: Trying to instantiate C:\Program Files\VstPlugins\reViSiT.dll  
VstPlugs: Analyzing VST plugin 'Chris Nash: reViSiT', Unique ID:858928696, Version:2300  
VstPlugs: Instantiate OK  
  
CrashLog: Handling Exception! Code : E06D7363  
CrashLog: 7548fbae: RaiseException +00058  
  
Application: Caught an unhandled exception (Thread: GUI)!  
Application: Saving a backup...  
  
Error Message: A fatal error or crash occurred (unhandled exception in thread: GUI).  
  

[BYTE-Smasher]

@vV

But you got to admit, this is quite some promising statement :

Indeed

[antic]

@crytek

Can this thread be closed now? I mean, this inspired the pattern matrix thing in 2.5. No further discussion needed innit?

Don’t think so. Matrix is good, but it is still way to go to the functionalities I described here over 2 years ago, which - incidentally - triggered the whole discussion about zoomable pattern editor

[BYTE-Smasher]

If anyone wants an idea of where Renoise is probably going, check out this mockup Danoise made 2 years ago, well before the Pattern Matrix was implimented:

… look familiar?

[almosthuman (Phate)]

@BYTE-Smasher

If anyone wants an idea of where Renoise is probably going, check out this mockup Danoise made 2 years ago, well before the Pattern Matrix was implimented:

… look familiar?

That is so sick. I can’t wait to see where Renoise is a year or two from now.

[whippycranium]

definitely need a zoomable pattern editor especially for tweaking stuff recorded by sliders (filter or whatever). renoise right now can have maximum 16 ticks per line. something sub-tick level would be great. if the number of ticks per line could be increased dramatically then you wouldnt hear the stepping up and down when interpolate linear from, for example, 00 to 40 on filter: cutoff parameter, in the duration of eight lines.I think 96 divisions per line would be enough to get it sounding smooth. then 48 is half a line, 24 is a quarter of a line, 12 is an eighth of a line etc. maybe just go the whole way and have 256 divisions (ticks/subticks/whatever they would be called) per line, so that 128 ($80) is half a line, 64 ($40) is a quarter of a line 32 ($20) is an eighth of a line etc… 256 divisions per line would be ideal but im not sure about how much of a drain on memory this would be…the option to have only 12 or 16 ticks per line should remain. lower resolution tracking would be an available option for slower computers and (possibly) netbooks.

[Jussi (Tweeny)]

4. The secondary editor is needed for editing noteclips, but will also be able to display tracks. Has optional pianoroll editing mode

Okey, I have not been able to understand the whole concept but zoomable patterns would be a great idea. However, I do not wish to have a pianoroll in Renoise ! I started using Renoise to get rid of pianorolls (it´s simply to hard for me to make music in that way, for various reasons.) But maby as Vv said one could have a pianoroll as an option in Renoise. But that´s just my opinion…

Best regards !

[maes]

i’m not too interested in a pianoroll… a function which would stack notes from low to high i separate columns would be nice for tiding up recorded stuff though.

btw, sometimes when i record stuff the track get an silly amount of columns. i haven’t figured out why. i do place the cursor in the leftmost column.

damn, i’m tired… stupid work

[splajn]

@BYTE-Smasher

If anyone wants an idea of where Renoise is probably going, check out this mockup Danoise made 2 years ago, well before the Pattern Matrix was implimented:

… look familiar?

Not sure whats the motivation for a separate clip editor, since if you mark a selection as a clip and edit that selection in the pattern editor it would edit the clip.
It seems to me like reinventing the wheel. Its just my first impression of the clip editor though.

[antic]

@splajn

Not sure whats the motivation for a separate clip editor, since if you mark a selection as a clip and edit that selection in the pattern editor it would edit the clip.It seems to me like reinventing the wheel. Its just my first impression of the clip editor though.

Not really. The idea is to have the clips available only for those that are interested in using them. They could write all segments of the tune in ‘clip editor’ and then drag the clips and arrange them in ‘pattern editor’. Others, that don’t need / like clips, could still work inside the pattern editor like they did before. And of course there is a middle way, where you can program some parts of the tune inside the pattern (e.g. the lead melody) and create repeating stuff in clips via ‘clip editor’ (e.g. drums, bass line etc.)

The idea is to give a choice. Take a look HERE to see what I mean (well, meant 2 years ago).

[splajn]

@antic

Not really. The idea is to have the clips available only for those that are interested in using them. They could write all segments of the tune in ‘clip editor’ and then drag the clips and arrange them in ‘pattern editor’. Others, that don’t need / like clips, could still work inside the pattern editor like they did before. And of course there is a middle way, where you can program some parts of the tune inside the pattern (e.g. the lead melody) and create repeating stuff in clips via ‘clip editor’ (e.g. drums, bass line etc.)

The idea is to give a choice. Take a look HERE to see what I mean (well, meant 2 years ago).

Ah well I can see the point.
But it will make you lose the overview of whats happening in the pattern editor as you wont see all the notes next to eachother, if the notes of the clips are not displayed.
The overview is something that is for me the strength of a tracker.

[antic]

@splajn

Ah well I can see the point.
But it will make you lose the overview of whats happening in the pattern editor as you wont see all the notes next to eachother, if the notes of the clips are not displayed.
The overview is something that is for me the strength of a tracker.

Not at all. If you zoom-in to the note level, you’ll see the notes (grouped in coloured clips) in the ‘pattern editor’ just like you can see them now. It is clearly visible in my mock-up (4th picture from the top), isn’t it?

[insane (allie)]

@s-n-s

floating windows sucks ass,i really think they are annoying

I agree.
But not everyone does.
I sometimes use a cool program called Audacity. It has options to make things float, but the default setting
is NOT like that, floating windows is only an option in the view menu.

This could come in handy.

[Pinwizkid]

Don’t know why it’s taken me forever to comment on these suggestions, but the zoomable pattern concept is simply genius. I had an idea similar to it (ability to view the subticks) but couldn’t figure out a clean way of displaying it visually.

Brendan

[insane (allie)]

@vV

No, The matrix is not the pattern zooming thing that was promised. Not even close at all.
There is definately need for zooming on subdelay level. (that would mean 255 sublines in the ultimate zoom mode).
Specially if you could perform multiple commands and note triggering on that level which is currently not possible.

Be careful, guys! If renoise turns into a DAW, killing the ninja tracker spirit, we’ll get kicked off of SDCompo!
But it’s still a great idea, just don’t go TOO crazy!

I mean, look at this! It’s an awesome idea! But go a little further and you end up with:

Where did the tracker go?

[Elrinth]

What about like this?

Normal Pattern line:
00 —
01 —
02 —
03 —
04 —
05 —
06 —
Zoomed x2:
00.0 —
00.5 —
01.0 —
01.5 —
02.0 —
02.5 —
03.0 —
03.5 —
04.0 —
04.5 —
05.0 —
05.5 —
06.0 —

Zoomed x4:
00.00 —
00.25 —
00.50 —
00.75 —
01.00 —
01.25 —
01.50 —
01.75 —
02.00 —
02.25 —
02.50 —
02.75 —
etc…

And in normal view if there is anything inbetween two line there could be a simple [ or something like that to show that you have to zoom to show it. Like:
-00
|
-01

^ that means there’s something inbetween 00 and 01. I can draw it nicer if someone likes the idea

[td6d]

@Elrinth

What about like this?

Normal Pattern line:
00 —
01 —
02 —
03 —
04 —
05 —
06 —
Zoomed x2:
00.0 —
00.5 —
01.0 —
01.5 —
02.0 —
02.5 —
03.0 —
03.5 —
04.0 —
04.5 —
05.0 —
05.5 —
06.0 —

Zoomed x4:
00.00 —
00.25 —
00.50 —
00.75 —
01.00 —
01.25 —
01.50 —
01.75 —
02.00 —
02.25 —
02.50 —
02.75 —
etc…

And in normal view if there is anything inbetween two line there could be a simple [ or something like that to show that you have to zoom to show it. Like:
-00
|
-01

^ that means there’s something inbetween 00 and 01. I can draw it nicer if someone likes the idea

I think you mean:

Normal Pattern line:
00 —
01 —
02 —
03 —
04 —
05 —
06 —
Zoomed x2:
00.0 —
00.8 —
01.0 —
01.8 —
02.0 —
02.8 —
03.0 —
03.8 —
04.0 —
04.8 —
05.0 —
05.8 —
06.0 —

Zoomed x4:
00.00 —
00.4 —
00.8 —
00.C —
01.00 —
01.4 —
01.8 —
01.C —
02.00 —
02.4 —
02.8 —
02.C —
etc…