Creating waveform instruments that span across octaves?


(grape_ape) #1

I’m interested in creating waveform instruments that span across octaves. Right now I’m using single waveforms that only go so far up and down the piano roll. I’d like to be able to get the instrument to play lower and higher octaves.

So, newbie question:

Is there a way to change the pitch of a single waveform? So that I could for example set the original waveform at c3, a lower pitched version at c2, a higher pitched version at c4, etc.?


(Zer0 Fly) #2

Short: Yes.

Long: a “waveform” can have some sort of pitch, but doesn’t have to, or it could have multiple or have changes in pitche(es). Playback speed can change pitch (frequency), this is how samplers usually pitch waveforms. If you were referring to “waveforms” as in single cycle loops, the base pitch is then set by the length of the loop vs. the playback speed. You can actually calculate the exact base pitch a single cycle loop will have, if you know the formal sample rate of the sample, the loop length in samples, and the “playback speed” - and you’ll know which note it is by knowing the formula for note/frequency (start with “equal temperament” aka “12tet”) or just consulting the right frequency/note table. If a single cycle loop repeats mostly to totally, the base frequency could be very weak, and the real base note an octave or more higher than expected by just seeing the length of the loop.

How in renoise: For each sample there are 2 relevant settings to determine the pitch/playback speed. One is the base note in the keyzones, this should set the note that will play back at neutral speed.The other is the transpose settings in semitones and cent, for tuning the sample. Ok as third you can disable key->pitch, then I think the base note behaves as pitching offset for the single, used pitch, so kind of additional tuning. Also the sampling rate set for the sample affects the pitch, keep in mind that “resampling” is different to just setting it to something different in this regard.


(grape_ape) #3

Sorry, should have been more specific, I’m working with single cycle waveforms.

Been playing around with different things, and have found using the “Key Tracking” modulation device applied to “Pitch” in the modulation section to do what I’m looking for… Well, at least I think (I did say I am a newbie :slight_smile: ). It seems to stretch out the pitch across the octaves more. When using single cycle waveforms the range isn’t very great, and stray too far from the base note and it doesn’t sound too good.


(Zer0 Fly) #4

Hand drawn single cycle waveforms, sound shitty when pitched up? Ah ok, you mean the aliasing that can make pitched up very high notes sound strange? You won’t fix this issue with pitch modulation, it does the same as just playing higher notes in normal fashion. Have you tried the little “aa” button in the sample properties, it eases the problem a bit.

You want to bandlimit your shapes? I also wished there was a tool for this - you quasi need to filter the samples to not contain frequencies too high for higher notes. And then have a set of succesively filtered copies, that would be spread across the keyzones. Won’t help with very wide bends/slides though.

Maybe a workaround could be, if for example your c-4 sample is 44100 khz sampling rate - to resample a copy of it (the Adjust button on top of the waveform view) to 22050, then make a new empty 44100 khz sample with half the number of samples of the original (if original was standard 168 use 84 samples), and mix paste in from the 22050 resampled data. Voila, use this from f#4 or c-5 on or so with base note in keyzones tuned up to c-5, and repeat this magic for each octave. This works (a bit, not perfect) because the resampling seems to use a filter.

No fake, this is poor man’s, err, poorest man’s bandlimiting. I just tried it for a laugh. It actually sounds almost decent, maybe you will like to not use 100% amplitude for the samples before resampling but reduce gain by 6db or so. Remeber to use the downsampled copies only for higher pitches, not for lower, because for the lower notes they will audibly lack the higher frequencies and sound dull compared to the original.


(grape_ape) #5

You won’t fix this issue with pitch modulation, it does the same as just playing higher notes in normal fashion.

The Key Tracking doesn’t do straight modulation, and it does seem to give a wider range of notes, spreading everything across the octave range more. Haven’t really compared it that much to the original though, so I can’t say for sure.

I honestly know very little about this stuff (isn’t it obvious :blush: ) and go mostly by ear at this point.


(danoise) #6

There’s this little gem of a tool which does generate multiple (and optionally, bandlimited) waveforms across octaves:
https://forum.renoise.com/t/new-tool-3-0-selection-shaper/41240

If you have a singlecycle (and only one), turning on the built-in oversampling/bandlimiting in Renoise does wonders too.
You can find it in the Sample Properties panel.

Also, when a single-cycles is supposed to play across the entire kb range, it’s good to have it generated at a low frequency.
Then, there are simply more “data” to work on as the pitch gets higher.


(Bungle) #7

There’s this little gem of a tool which does generate multiple (and optionally, bandlimited) waveforms across octaves:
https://forum.renoise.com/t/new-tool-3-0-selection-shaper/41240

How do you get it to generate multiple waveforms across octaves, i must be missing something entirely ?


(danoise) #8

Huh, you’re right. It produces great samples, though :slight_smile:

Shouldn’t bee too hard to add multi-sample functionality. I wonder if the author would allow this tool to be picked up by the Renoise team?

It would not only put it on the tools page (where it really belongs!), but also guarantee that it is maintained…


(thanatos) #9

for waveform all you need is here :

http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/adventure-kid-waveforms/


(The_Traveler) #10

for waveform all you need is here :

http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/adventure-kid-waveforms/

It’s a nice collection, but there are times when you want to create your own stuff … I’d love to see the tool updated and made available.

Cheers.


(Bungle) #11

Huh, you’re right. It produces great samples, though :slight_smile:

Shouldn’t bee too hard to add multi-sample functionality. I wonder if the author would allow this tool to be picked up by the Renoise team?

It would not only put it on the tools page (where it really belongs!), but also guarantee that it is maintained…

That would be a good thing, even just that small update of mapping a single cycle to all keys would be brilliant for sound design.


(catchpharse) #12

Huh, you’re right. It produces great samples, though :slight_smile:

Shouldn’t bee too hard to add multi-sample functionality. I wonder if the author would allow this tool to be picked up by the Renoise team?

It would not only put it on the tools page (where it really belongs!), but also guarantee that it is maintained…

Yes please, this has to be done! Is it still possible for @satobox to contact “uprime22”?