Delay Feature For Automation Envelopes

a while ago i stopped using the groove settings to achieve a shuffled groove.
on the one hand i was motivated to do so by the new delay column and on the other i figured, that with the new LPB mode, the groove settings behave differently as opposed to the speed mode.
(speed mode groove settings sounded more natural imo)

the big disadvantage of creating the shuffle with delay commands however is, that rhythmic automation via envelopes cannot be triggered in a shuffled way, since the rows between the on- and offbeat are triggered statically - without any delay, and without any way to workaround.

so without a doubt it would be nice to have an option that delays the segments between the on- and offbeat for automation envelopes as well.
it could be solved by adding an on/off switch next to the curve / preset selection, which, when enabled, “ungreys” a further field where the amount of delay between 00-ff(h) can be determined.

good, yes? :)

Good, indeed. :)

Meanwhile, using pattern commands instead of automation envelopes is a good workaround.

as far as i knew, this wouldn’t work either, as delay commands only affect note entries and not fx entries.
but since i wasn’t sure, i made a quick test to acknowledge my assumption.

result: it doesn’t work.
if i misunderstood you, please show me how :)
(ps. do not use the groove settings or bpm / tempo changes - i really mean the delay stuff)

In the future I could vision this work quite well using dedicated tracks for automation envelopes.
Together with pattern zooming (that also implicate delays for fx’s) you could optionally show the automation data as dedicated pattern editor tracks. You then see the automation data (points) as numbers in the pattern editor. So by moving these you are actually moving the data in the automation.

Another concept we could use in addition to dedicated tracks is to give each note more properties like explained in this thread. There you see special data connected to the note it self. So when you move/delay a note you also move/delay the fx-data connected to it.

Yep, this is what I meant. But obviously I was wrong. It was a wild guess.

I’m normally using F1xx commands for shuffling, as I usually need an overall song shuffle. This plays well with any mode of automation.

But shuffling individual tracks, as I guess is your intent… Uncool as it may sound but… use temporary speed shuffle and render only this track to sample?

as i’m still suffering from this problem day by day (ofc) i couldn’t stop thinking about other ways of improving the current behaviour.

i think the optimal solution to this problem would be to “hardwire” the delay values which are entered in the pattern view to the respective automation envelope points.

for example:

in row 09 of the pattern i have entered A0(h) in the delay column, this would result in point 09 of the automation to be also delayed be the same amount (A0).

this way both, pattern and automation, would always be in perfect sync no matter how much delay-value-alteration you have within a single pattern.

i mean… the new pattern resolution thanks to LPB is really nice… but it’s only have as nice if we can’t access the same resolution with the automations…

please hear my prayers :(

While keith’s wish is to let the automation points be delayed to respective pattern values during playtime, I think it’d be more intuitive (esp. for new users) if one could simply zoom into the automation and set detailed points. This is easier to understand but it complicates the workflow (zoom in, set point, scroll, set next point).

So we could combine these two ideas.

Given the accessibility to the high resolution with the zoom-function, we could have another button just like “humanize”, “randomize”, etc. and that one will be “snap to delay”. Once you press on that button, your points in the automation will be moved to the position of the delay values which you have entered in the pattern editor earlier. So you don’t have to set all the points by hand. They’ll be “quantized” to the delays with one click.

Good point Keith…Since that automation is totally note-independent, I think for the no-total-rewrite option, it would be the best to solve this for the pattern commands only (since they are more note-bound; in fact they exist beside the delay column). ALL effects would be triggered with included delay than.
As in a later stadium I totally agree with Gilli ideas about making the automation window zoomable to delay-tick-resolution.

glad somebody else does also miss this. couldn’t believe i’m the only one working with “shuffled” beats and groove-based-automations.
think the only workaround for now is working with uber-fast pattern speeds (i.e. LPB 16/32).
even though i don’t believe in any supernatural authority, i’m praying to god every evening that taktik will eventually think about implementing this ;)