Doing stuff in one DAW and then moving the output into another DAW has always been doable. It’s not really a solution to the problem we’re outlining here though.
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So ReWire got thrown under the bus?… Why does that keep happening?… Synapse did that with Orion with version 8 (being a hoster) but put it back in at final 8.6 (both slave & host)… Shoot ableton dropped a buncha sampler formats starting with version 10 I think… Renoise has been around long enough it should be able to open any sampler format no matter what it is… this is known as ‘retrograde’ or ‘gravitating to a worse condition’… I saw over at Image-Line complaints about eliminating the enigmatic TS-404 from FL Studio… One of the most iconic features just deleted…
Well, for Renoise just use the last viable version that had ReWire in it… There’s nothing so earth-shattering you are gonna miss out on as you can make great music in any version for last 2 decades…
May peeps have many ReWire slaves installed about, getting rid of makes no sense… This is what was ‘being craved like brawndo’ back in 1999… ReBirth running inside Cubase VST24 3.7-
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I agree. My simple argument for keeping it in would be : there’s no good reason to remove it.
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I didn’t use Rewire a lot because I’m still a noob, but I was able to make it work on my older computer, and the idea got me pumped up… then I tried it on my otehr computer (with updated Renoise and Ableton) and realized the option was gone.
Link just isn’t the same thing, since you can’t synchronize the timeline of your DAWs together. What about live performances? You can’t do anything interesting with this. So yes, I think it would be great to give the option to be able to use Rewire again.
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Not 100% sure, but there seems to be an extension of Ableton Link called Link Audio soon available, which can exchange audio streams over network and most likely between local apps, too:
EDIT: @taktik maybe you could add Link Audio support, it’s already available in the public SDK:
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This still will not track the timeline position so it’s not comparable to ReWire. ReWire still does all this and more. It’s still viable and I still don’t understand why Renoise ditched it.
isnt the normal link transferring the song position?
No.
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i just use Jack/virtual audio cable on windows + OSC and Midi to sync apps. Last time I used rewire it would use high cpu at idle.
I wonder if it’s a licensing issue. While licensing Rewire was free for developers financially AFAIK, it was never free in the open source FOSS sense. Using it required permission. And probably a non-disclosure agreement and contracts.
If the company from which you license the technology ceases to provide that license for new versions of your software, that would be a valid reason to remove the feature that requires the license.
I suspect that for software that continues to support Rewire right now, it continues because whatever contract they had with Reason Studios / Propellerhead extended their license to either a specific date or a specific version number of their software. At some point they’ll all hit that limit and be unable to license it for further use. That’s my guess, anyway.
And therein lies the fundamental problem with proprietary standards: you’re subject to the whims of whoever controls the license.
I never saw a high CPU issue with ReWire. In fact, running with ReWire vs without was identical on resources here - or as close to identical as to make no discernable difference. Interesting though, your findings.
An interesting theory - could be!
I just feel that Renoise could simply default to not using ReWire but allow users to continue using it through some config switch to let them opt back in. A bit like Ableton Live did in latter versions - you had to enable it through a user config file otherwise it was unavailable.
The other side to this of course is that maybe the Renoise devs could come up with a more elegant solution that would allow the integration of Renoise into other DAW workflows and then all this could be put to bed finally. One can dream.
Rewire is dead. Might be sad, but it is like it is.
Yes, I should probably just not attempt to make an argument against dropping it then eh. Silly me.
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>> I just feel that Renoise could simply default to not using ReWire but allow users to continue using it
+1
Like in REAPER
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@thalamus You are not alone feeling that way. I am also one of those that still uses it and has been forced to work with old software to be able to still use Rewire (Waveform 9 in my case). I also had to completely ditch Renoise 3.5 because the same exact reason. It was shocking and a shame to see Rewire completely gone for no apparent reason. In fact, truth is I don’t really understand why devs themselves haven’t just explained the reason why. But well, I guess if they haven’t said a word about it I want to believe there is actually a reason they are not allowed to speak about.
Anyway, it’s really a huge shame. Because Renoise despite being awesome and an incredibly powerful tool and DAW… doesn’t cover all the needs or workflow many of us are comfortable with and need, that a classic DAW provides. The same goes the other way, which is even a more important reason. As classic DAWs while they provide certain workflow that is more comfortable for certain things, they completely lack the unique power and capabilities that a tracker as phenomenal as Renoise provides. That’s what made Rewire so great, it acted as a bridge and glue that allowed two completely different kind of tools to work together in a way that perfectly complemented each other. And Redux while it offers some of it, is still not enough to achieve the same.
To be honest, for me the perfect solution would be that Renoise itself would become the same some other DAWs I have seen were able to do, to exist within the standalone domain while at the same time offering and allowing to be loaded and used as a VST plugin with all the exact same functionality intact. But I am well aware though this is to ask for way too much and not something viable at all given the specific circumstances of Renoise and its dev team.
I find that very sad, too! Rewire was quite capable, and there barely is a crossplatform replacement… But Taktik wrote above that jack now supports all features as Rewire?
JACK seems to be some kind of alien body within the macOS ecosystem. I wonder why there is no audio driver wrapper completely running in the background and only on demand…
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Last week, I was working on some cover, and it would have saved me one or two hour to use ReWire instead of that slice workaround I used.
I will go back to 3.4 too…
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I just learned that Waveform 13 actually still has Rewire support. Just that due to a bug in the Windows version it was disabled until very recently one of the latest minor updates fixed it.
So… it’s not just Reaper being the only recent and modern software out there still allowing to use it. Shouldn’t that be reason enough to let Renoise continue to have it too? I really hope devs reconsider and decide to bring it back again.
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leaving my sincere +1 here
i really really don’t like when devs kill useful stuff for ‘lack of future support’ or ‘all other programs are doing it too’
at least give us the option to enable rewire if we want, at our own risk. it was pretty useful for me. and for a lot of other people too, and this thread here is proof.
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