Do's and don'ts of redistributing the Renoise demo?


(James Britt / Neurogami) #1

At some point I want to release an album that, as part of the download (or as part of an SD card/USB thumb drive distribution), includes xrns files and some custom Renoise tools.

The end user would of course need Renoise so I want to bundle in the demo version as well.

Is this permitted?

Is there some specific legal information I would have to include? Anexplicitlicensing doc? Other stuff? Or maybe nothing more than the demo installer?

Thanks!


(agent220) #2

neat idea! should be fine. and as far as documents iirc the demo comes with the fine print (licensing doc etc) so I’d imagine all you’ll have to do is simply bundle in the demo install


(James Britt / Neurogami) #3

neat idea! should be fine. and as far as documents iirc the demo comes with the fine print (licensing doc etc) so I’d imagine all you’ll have to do is simply bundle in the demo install

I looked for such docs but found nothing. There’s just the installer. I didn’t actually install the demo since I already have Renoise installed and don’t want to boink anything by mistake.


(agent220) #4

yeah, I don’t know, it’s been ages since I’ve installed the demo, I just assumed that it would include all that information, or at least somewhere in the terms and conditions scroll screen that the user either accepts or declines before install. maybe you can include a Readme type of filing letting your listeners know about the demo included and give them the link to the site. afaik there’s really no harm distributing the renoise demo, if anything you’re helping the potential for our community to grow.


(GrooveMastaPutz) #5

I’m sure the devs would have no problem with you pimping out the demo of renoise, so long as you didn’t modify it or anything (which I assume you don’t intend to do).

Maybe put a link to where they can buy it just to be safe? Or alternatively just put a link to where they can download the demo and have them do it on their own.

I feel like they would only have a problem with users distributing the demo on websites other than the official renoise page, but I’m not a dev so I won’t speak for them.


(James Britt / Neurogami) #6

I’m sure the devs would have no problem with you pimping out the demo of renoise, so long as you didn’t modify it or anything (which I assume you don’t intend to do).

Maybe put a link to where they can buy it just to be safe? Or alternatively just put a link to where they can download the demo and have them do it on their own.

I feel like they would only have a problem with users distributing the demo on websites other than the official renoise page, but I’m not a dev so I won’t speak for them.

I doubt there would be any problem so long as I make clear the source of the demo version and include all the expected info about copyright, trademark, etc. I.e., make clear this is not MY software, but software needed to play my songs. And certainly I wouldencouragepeople to purchase the full version.

When I’m ready to actually release something like this I’ll make a point of contacting someone at Renoise World Headquarters directly to be sure there isn’t so unexpected reason (legal or otherwise) this would not be allowed.

I was just hoping one of the Renoise overlords would see this thread and comment.


(ffx) #7

Come on, guys. As far as I understand the license text, this is clearly forbidden. For good reasons.

Why not put a link to renoise page instead? Personally I would prefer to download a software from the official webpage, nowadays. I even would say I would find an installer on a music album quite dubious. Also a link would be a much better promotion.


(danoise) #8

Speaking for myself, I think no one at Renoise will complain or sue you for distributing a demo as part of an album release - but, ffx has a good point. I’m pretty sure that most people will feel more comfortable downloading any software from it’s official website.


(radian) #9

And they can use this page to ensure they get a specific version, in case that matters.
http://www.renoise.com/archived-releases


(James Britt / Neurogami) #10

Come on, guys. As far as I understand the license text, this is clearly forbidden. For good reasons.

Why not put a link to renoise page instead? Personally I would prefer to download a software from the official webpage, nowadays. I even would say I would find an installer on a music album quite dubious. Also a link would be a much better promotion.

A goal is to make as friction-free as possible. I’d provide a link to the demo download page as well, but want to provide an all-in-one package as well.


(James Britt / Neurogami) #11

Come on, guys. As far as I understand the license text, this is clearly forbidden. For good reasons.

Where is thelicensetext for the demo installer? The installer itself includesa license file that, as best I can tell, refers tothe Renoise program itself (e.g renoise.exe) but I have not seen a license that describes the installer (e.g, Renoise_3_1_0_Demo_x64.exe).

It isn’t clear to me that the restriction on copying the filesprovidedby the free demo installer means a restriction on copying theinstalleritself. That is, thelicenseapplies when you run the installer and applies to the files installed.


(ffx) #12

Have a look here:

http://www.renoise.com/license-agreement

It’s targeting demo and full version. Especially read §1.1.B and §6.1.D.


(James Britt / Neurogami) #13

It’s targeting demo and full version. Especially read §1.1.B and §6.1.D.

Right. I read that. As best I can tell itrefersto the software being installed by the installer.

As it says at the top of the license, ‘the “Renoise” computer programme,’

Not the installer software package itself. I take this license to mean that I cannot redistribute the parts extracted from the installer.


(ffx) #14

Well, only taktik can answer this it seems :slight_smile:


(James Britt / Neurogami) #15

Well, only taktik can answer this it seems :slight_smile:

That’s basically it. I can think of reasons for and against allowing it. Even if there was sometechnically validlegal view that would allow it, but the chief Renoisers were against it, I’d want to respect their wishes.

And I appreciate theobservationsthatpeoplemight not want to use a bundled installer versus grabbing it from the official source (convenient or not).

I’ll inquiry moredirectlywith the Renoise folks if and when Iactuallyhave something to release.

It also struck me that if I’m selling an album + xrns + demoversionI am conceivably(albeitindirectly) selling the demo.

Short term I need to produce something that is at least proof-of-concept and see where it goes from there.

I really do like the idea of providing an end product that is not meant to be the one true and only rendering of a piece.


(ffx) #16

Neurogami, nah, you are completely wrong here.

  1. The installer of course is the same as the software, from law way of view. The installer contains the software, so redistribution of the installer is the same as redistribution of the software.

  2. If nothing is written about a downloadable software, all rights and properties remains to the creator. That’s the German copyright law.

So basically, you are exactly allowed to do NOTHING WITHOUT permission.

C’mon man, you should have asked such thing privately.


(f+d+k) #17

Legal stuff aside…

I really do like the idea of providing an end product that is not meant to be the one true and only rendering of a piece.

Sounds cool to me as a concept. I also like the idea behind Gescom’s Minidisc.


(James Britt / Neurogami) #18

Neurogami, nah, you are completely wrong here.

  1. The installer of course is the same as the software, from law way of view. The installer contains the software, so redistribution of the installer is the same as redistribution of the software.

  2. If nothing is written about a downloadable software, all rights and properties remains to the creator. That’s the German copyright law.

So basically, you are exactly allowed to do NOTHING WITHOUT permission.

C’mon man, you should have asked such thing privately.

I’m asking about permission.

Asking things in private doesn’t help others who might have similar questions.

Not having a legal education background, I’m not going to presume to know the answers. I do have enough legal experience to know that things are often not as obvious or simple as they might appear.

The fact that I could not find anythingthat, to my understanding, specificallyaddresses this doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

So I asked.


(James Britt / Neurogami) #19

Legal stuff aside…

Sounds cool to me as a concept. I also like the idea behind Gescom’s Minidisc.

Wow. Minidisc! That sure didn’t last.:slight_smile:

I like the idea of that album. It’s something I would apply myself, using jumps among patterns and loops. (Probablynot as the basis for an entire piece though.)

What’sstrikingis that the composer made a point ofexploitingan interesting quality of the distribution media, something that doesn’t happen often enough.


(pat) #20

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask this in public.

Hopefully taktik responds :slight_smile:

fwiw I don’t think there’s any real friction in telling someone to download the demo, but I get where you’re coming from.