Drugs? Addiction?

Off-Topic
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Drugs, addictions, social behaviours are hot topics…
This happens because today there are a lot of misunderstandings about this… Huge propaganda was done during the years and I sadly witness that there is still people who didn’t realized what the word “pre-judice” means

I know people who lost their contact with reality by obsessively following… computer trends, sports, sex, food, social trends… and drugs too, of course. People is “psychologically addicted” in a bad way to these things and can’t do without em…
As my experience teached me, there is everywhere poor-minded people who will manage to alienate from their own biological reality… but they will manage to do so no matter what substance you feed em.

Confused people who can’t have fun if they don’t smoke?
I bet there are many… but it’s slightly narrow minded to think that’s the only way to relate to certain substances… exactly like it would be narrow minded to think that to be alienated from reality, fat, pale… is the only way to relate to a PC.

As a matter of fact (with great amazement of those who “don’t do drugs”) the use of psycho-active substances is one with humans since the first traces we have of em. Most people even thinks that “religions” aren’t much more than the developed misunderstanding of past psychedelic experiences… in almost every culture you find psycho-active substances tied to paths of enlightement, growth, understanding, spiritual elevation.
In many places the psycho-active substance itself is even considered “divine”…

Under the psychological point of view, certain psycho-active substances are a huge field of research and a great chance for self improvement.
They offer the chance of changing the “standard” of our brain… therefore letting us take “measures” from a different angle, from a different point of view. (You know what the word Stereoscopic means? It’s the different position of the two eyes that allows us to obtain a 3d reconstruction of the image in our brain. In a similar way, you can think to certain psychedelic experiences like opening your second eye and realizing finally a 3d dimension in the way you are and behave)

About the recreational use of drugs I can say that it’s no secret that even the animal kingdom does not despite the chance of having a psychedelic experience from time to time ( monkeys, parrots, tigers…)
I would tend to exclude the chance of a behavioural pattern in their actions.
What I must deduce is that what leads humans to be alienated is not the drug they take but “why” they take it and “how”.

If you feel like you’re stupid you can well stay completely away from any experience… because, you know, it might end up in something dangerous.

:lol:

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I’m not sure which missunderstandings you’re talking about… Is it a common misunderstanding that drugs doesn’t offer any positive effects at all? Is it a common misunderstanding that you cannot use drugs without being addicted to them? :huh: … I think most people between 7 and 70 are very aware of this.

My problem with drugs lies not in the side effects they cause.

I don’t know what the sittuation is in Italy… with legalization and everything but in sweden where I live all drugs are illegal, even cannabis.
This means that if I were to use drugs I would be supporting a series of crimes. And as it most often is with drugs these crimes would be organized by big, brutal and in every other way decpicable organizations. I avoid other felonys where I would have to do jail time if I got caught so why should I do drugs? I am aware that for a law to be effective it has to be rooted in people’s minds as being something wrong and it looks as if more and more people are positive to legalization of atleast lighter drugs. But until that day comes it is illegal. If I knew that the owner of a store was beating his wife and children I wouldn’t go to that store. Simple as that.

Are you actually saying this? Am I stupid because I don’t want to try drugs? Would you say I’m stupid if I didn’t smoke cigarettes? Am I also a coward because I’m concerned about eventual side effects???

Most friends of mine who do use drugs are honest and say that it is a great feeling but never have they said what I’m a coward for not trying… that’s just stupid!

And for the record: I do smoke (tobacco). I do drink once in a while and like to get drunk. I do drink way to much coffee. I’m not religious. I do not poccess any expertice in drugs and their effects and I’m not particulary interested in drug debates. I’m merely explaining why I think it’s stupid to promote drug use.

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Well you’re right Parsec… humans have always used different substances to reach out to spirits and most often it was/is a medicin man or a spiritual leader that had this roll. In a long time perspective modern religions are pretty different from what the original spiritual beliefs are, in which spirits and forefathers played the important roll in contrary to religions’ Gods. Religions also introduced the “sin” concept making sex, drugs and other natural behaviours become tabu.

However I think drugs worked better hundreds of thousands of years ago than in today’s society where it causes lots of not so good side effects. But it would be wrong to say drugs are to blame, it’s more a symptom of the unnatural way we live today imo…

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I don’t mind lighter drugs, (beer, cannabis) as long as they don’t get you hooked right away. You can get addicted to beer after a while yeah, if you drink it ALOT, although strong drugs such as heroin, which are basically made for getting you hooked after one shot so you’ll come back for more, untill you die, people who sell these and promote these drugs are nothing but cynical egocentric bastards. Both my brothers died of heroin in 1999-2000, and it all started with cannabis, which is why i’m not opposed to cannabis, but to that culture: if you start with one thing, say, exctacy or weed, it will, in some cases, lead you to stronger drugs, as the dealers will ask if you want “something stronger”. Sure, as you use a drug, the feeling you get will decrease as your body gets used to it, and you’ll therefore look for a “new high”.

If they would legalize cannabis, people who want to smoke that stuff would hopefully stay out of the tougher community.

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Micro-criminality around the black market of light drugs is a well known issue for everyone involved into anti-proibitionism… but I would not say that “going against the law” necessarily involves all these terrific consequences you point your finger to.
Just think about all the people growing their own weed… where are they going wrong??

That’s not what I said but if you ask… well… you “drink once in a while”… and smoke cigarettes… so you already do drugs.

It would be stupid indeed… but I suppose as well that you don’t go to them and speak your opinion about something you can’t practically know… ;) and I hope you don’t try to tell them that buying their pot they are like supporting felony, husbands beating wifes, immorality and war…

Nobody’s promoting drug use here… in the same way I think that nobody wants to see it uselessly condamned or easily judged too.

Here Johan hits the point that many others are missing.
Sex, self expression, relationships, selfconsciousness… all of these are today nothing more than twisted ghosts of what they were meant to be.
does this means that nobody’s able anymore to live his/her own biological reality? I don’t think so.

Is like saying that food is the problem that causes fat people.

I’m truly sorry for your brothers…
All the people who’s into hard drugs have past experience with weed… but if we really go and have a look we find that they probably smoked cigarettes before… and in the beginning they all started drinking a beer… and what lead them to drink a beer? Water.
Must we deduce that drinking water, in the long run, brings to heavy drugs? It’s obviously a stupid claim… because of all the other people we know that are drinking water and not using any drug at all.
As you wisely noticed, there is a culture who brings to a certain point. What I’m saying is that this certain culture is not the only point of view from which we might look at this field.
To “Get used to it” (tollerance) it’s something that happens when you smoke WAY MORE than the amount you biologically can handle. This means you start with no measure… no natural check… you don’t smoke “as much as it takes to makes me feel good”… you just don’t care/can’t perceive about the way you feel and go on rolling and smoking.

It’s something that has to do with personal mind structure and the loss of our inner perception of what’s “natural” and fits our needs.
Out of THAT measure everything is dangerous.

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Yes, I do. That’s was my whole point with stating that I do smoke and drink. I’m not an anti drug spokesman.

I’m pro legalization of cannabis. Not so sure with the rest though… :unsure:

Basicly I agree with what you wrote… except for the last part. I hate when people are trying to convince someone to use any habit forming drug, including tobacco and alcohol.

But I may have misunderstood what you said and in that case I appologize.

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I really don’t see your point in this… There’s so many people doing drugs and almost everyone has a relation to it in some way, someone you know, met or heard of, that you really don’t have to try drugs to base your opinion about it. And even though you have tried drugs you can have any opinion of it like you think it is all good, bad, should be illegal or not etc. Talking about what’s natural to humans, now that’s something that’s extremely hard to pratically know since 99.999% of us live in unnatural conditions (anyone live in a tribe here? :)). Bottom line is everyone is entitled to their own opinion…

Otherwise I agree with the most things you are saying here, Parsec. Makes lot of sense actually and it’s basically the same view as I have :)

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I understand this. There are many other substances that aren’t as relatively safe as cannabis. If I am to take it in a logical way I would say: we have seen proibitionism at work with alchool in the states. Proibitionism simply doesn’t works. It creates the problem it’s supposed to solve… so I would say that we should simply de-criminalize all drugs… but this is scaring as well… with certain other substances around, one could find himself paying much more than he expected to for a first experience…
But there would also be more freedom… and therefore, people should hopefully become more responsible… bah… The topic is very complex.

I see what you mean… but, as you suspected, I don’t know where I tried to convince anyone in forming any habit, being this related or not related to drugs. If you want to get it right feel free to ask me what point you didn’t get, I’ll be glad to explain!

Eheh… now this is thinking in a smart way :)
I tell you, our nature it’s so perfect that it has no problem in letting us adapt to the most different ambients… in the same way as a seagull might ride a wide number of different winds and might gracefully land with no problem both on a natural rock and on the iron fence of a boat… in the very same way we are entitled to receive instruction from our instinct to solve a problem both in the jungle where the “tribes” are living… and in a city where we actually live.
What you call “extremely hard to practically know” is something not as hard as you suspect… and it doesn’t takes to live in a tribe… as living in a tribe does not gives any guarantee of being suggestions-free.
You even knew it already: when you was a child. When one is born he’s not contaminated by any external suggestion or fear… so it’s 100% in that certain “natural way” we’re speaking about. As you see is not as distant as you depicted ;)
I’d like to remind you that a certain form of deconstructive psychology might well be used to reach what you seem to relate to “living in a tribe” :)