Easy access to unused patterns

One thing that’s been bothering me about renoise is, there’s no easy way to select patterns independently of their position (or absence) in the sequence/orderlist. I often use “unused” patterns to paste ideas, mix them, see how they come out, etc…

This can be done in Renoise, but doesn’t have the same feeling of flexibility as directly selecting patterns instead of orderlist entries.

how would you improve the current way of accessing them? If I remember well, in old trackers you could access unused patterns by modifying the number of the currently selected pattern, by directly typing the number in the curent pattern list cell, or by using arrow-shaped buttons or keyboard shortcuts.

all of this is already possible in Renoise, so what am I missing?

also, in Renoise you can create sections in the song. I usually create a “pastebin” section at the end of the song where I store all ideas in “unused” patterns

If you disable the “Keep sequence sorted” option in the sequencer context menu, you should be able to order the range of patterns in any arbitrary order you like.
You could then move the unused patterns to the end and add a section above it named something like “Idea snippets”

I’d simply add two keybindings for “go to next” and “go to previous” pattern, in addition to the already existing go to next/previous ENTRY in orderlist/sequence.

For example, in ST3, Impulse/Schsim Tracker, etc. pressing keypad + and - does this. In Impulse Tracker and related, ctrl+keypad + and - go to the next/previous ORDER, like Renoise does.

So, if you’re on pattern 5, keypad + brings you to pattern 6, regardless if it’s even used in the song. (All patterns are considered to “exist”, so if pattern 6 doesn’t exist, an empty pattern 6 is created) Ctrl+keypad + does like Renoise, ie. tries to find the next order (pattern that comes after 5 in the song) and goes to that pattern if found, otherwise it does nothing.

(Schism Tracker has an annoying bug with ctrl+keypad + and - that happens when patterns occur several times in the orderlist: it always takes the first instance, regardless what order was previously played/selected) So, if a pattern is used twice, pressing ctrl+keypad + many times won’t bring you from the first used pattern to the end of the song - instead it loops back to the first instance just after reaching the second one.
/* EDIT */ Looks like this has been fixed in newer versions of Schism.

In Renoise this is Ctrl + left / right arrow keys :).

Yeah but it changes the current order, so you have to be careful to remember which pattern was there, and put it back afterwards :confused:

(plus it marks the song as modified for “Save changes?” dialog, which is a (somewhat minor) annoyance)

I think this -maybe- could be scripted if a few API calls were added… but currently it seems like the pattern editor can’t be editing/showing a pattern that’s not in the orderlist…

not sure if I understand whay you mean but, as vV already said, have you tried disabling auto sorting patterns option?

Slightly off topic…

Does anybody know how to delete the unused patterns? I tried right clicking on the matrix, and I couldn’t see a menu item…



the menu item is in the standard Edit application menu, on the top bar


I started tracking with Impulse Tracker 2.14, and I miss being able to navigate through the patterns without having to add them to the order list first. My first attempts to move to the next pattern in Renoise turned out to advance through instruments instead :(

The keys don’t matter, but the functionality itself does.

as vV already said, have you tried disabling auto sorting patterns option?

I think you need to make your icon bigger…

YES IT’S DISABLED. I keep it disabled by default. All that does is, like it says, doesn’t keep the sequence sorted. Advancing through patterns doesn’t change with this option, other than the fact that the orderlist is or isn’t sorted. Behaviour with unused pattern doesn’t change.

Oh and reading the whole manual and watching all the tutorial videos, was the first thing i did when i started posting here. Some things weren’t clear because i wasn’t yet familiar with renoise, which is why i refer to it again sometimes.

Exactly what are you trying to do?

You want to look at a different pattern to the one selected? Renosie always has to be looking at something in the Sequence so to do this you have to change the selected pattern. There are two ways to do this:

  • Change position in the Sequence to where there desired Pattern is.
  • Change the Pattern number of your current position in the Sequence to the desired pattern.

Both of these have keyboard shortcuts, which vary depending on where your focus is.

What exactly do you want more than this? How can it be done any other way? What magical methods do other programs use you would like to see incorporated?

Behaviour of unused patterns does very much change! If you have the default of Keep Sorted enabled then unused patterns always get given the highest numbers, I believe starting at highest_pattern_number_in_sequence+2, if you have it disabled then they keep the pattern number they were created with!

But actually stating the behaviour of these DOS programs you allude to, rather than expecting us all to know exactly what you mean would be the biggest benefit in helping us know if there is a way to do what you want or if this is a genuine suggestion to improve the program. So far you have failed to at any point actually describe what you want!

In Impulse tracker you can browse through patterns by using ctrl+ and ctrl- i believe and this doesn’t influence the orderlist (f11)
You don’t have this splitted view in Renoise, but i got used to going to the end or very start of the song and use either the first or last sequence for quick browsing and switching through patterns.
Renoise doesn’t have a better option than this but it isn’t the end of the world either using this method.

Just make sure your ending has ZT00 in it and put the unplayed special stuff after. You could assign midi notes to those patterns’ play buttons for live breakdowns and such.

I believe i described it pretty clearly above:

…which is why i posted this in the “ideas & suggestions” board. (not sure what you mean by “splitted” view…)

Go to Prev/Next where and how? The only way Renoise could do it is by changing the pattern number of the current position in the Sequence. This already exists! So again, how are you asking this to be implemented?

Bearing in mind Renoise has an Edit Position, which is always within the Sequence.

I, too, have read the entire manual, watched all the tutorial videos, and read several of the tutorial blog entries by various contributors here. I read the manual and watched all the videos before I even decided to buy Renoise. In fact, many of it’s features as described in the manual are what really pushed me to go ahead and get it. I, too, have disabled the Keep Sequence Sorted option. It doesn’t add the functionality being suggested here.

In IT, the number pad + and - navigate forward and backwards through all patterns, Ctrl+ and Ctrl- navigate forward and backwards through the order list (or sequence, if you prefer). You can change your current working pattern by either method. The difference is that with Ctrl+/- you can only navigate through patterns present in the order list, and you step through them in the order they’re listed. If a pattern hasn’t been added to the order, you can’t get to it with Ctrl+/-. But you can still get to it with +/-.

Renoise doesn’t allow navigating to patterns that are not listed in the order list (or sequence). The patterns first have to be added to the sequence, changing the current sequence, and then they are accessible. Keeping a chunk of the sequence separated from the ‘main song’ sequence doesn’t change the fact that the patterns that aren’t part of the song still have to be listed in the sequence before you can access them.

The crux of it is, Renoise currently has a Ctrl+/- (navigate through patterns in the sequence) but no +/- (navigate through patterns regardless of order or even presence in the sequence).