empty renoise song +masterscopes enabled ...cpu hog

empty renoise song .Showing masterscopes …( no other programs are running )
No audio processing , no vst’s loaded …constant cpu burden …
cpu taskmanger 80´% activity.
SEems like it has the same problem as the modulation envelope had , constant processing yet no input
Don’t tell me this is normal behaviour
Unnacceptable …sorry
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8r30F-O7d0lbXRFbmZjRFJ4UDA/edit?usp=sharing

The strange thing is that Renoise’s internal CPU meter seems to be showing almost zero usage in your screenshot.

Can you please go to Task Manager’s Processes tab and sort it by CPU usage, to see which process is using up all the CPU?

(Not doubting that there’s a problem here, but I’m simply curious to see Renoise in your actual process list)

screenshot was taken on my home computer , I am in a lousy internet bar at the moment .
You can be 100 sure that all the cpu is used by renoise , I have a squeeky clean audio pc .;with no internet or hacked software …
Whenever the masterscopes are enabled …cpu taskmanager is constant 70 80% , hiding them solves it …
Maybe try it on your pc …

That’s why I am asking in my previous big RANT post if something has changed under the hood …I am sure of it .

That’s why I am asking in my previous big RANT post if something has changed under the hood …I am sure of it .

Perhaps, but if you post such screenshot, make sure it also shows it, like this (and if you don’t want others to see what you are running next to it, blur it out in paint):

Because if showing the Master scope is causing the CPU to raise to 65% but Renoise shows only 5%, it might be a directDraw issue in the GPU drivers.
Which might mean that code for gpu update has to be optimized somewhere to get this solved.

here goes
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8r30F-O7d0lbXRFbmZjRFJ4UDA/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8r30F-O7d0lX2M0a0ZWNnFyN3M/edit?usp=sharing

In Renoise’s GUI preferences, have you disabled the “Limit Frame Rate” option?

If you have, then enable it again and set it to something like 60 or even 100. When this option is disabled the GUI will run at an insane update rate (up to 1000 FPS, thus taking as much CPU power as it gets.
This does not really hurt but wastes a bit of energy, especially on old computers. It does help to avoid “tearing” when patterns are scrolling insanely fast.

I don’t think it’s normal at all no, not seeing anything like that here.

never had this in 2.8 , regardless of framerate seting …it’s a 3.0 thing
And here frame rate is set to 40 , ( assuming pattern follow would behave more smoothly …but hell no …)
Just come out of the closet taktik , and tell me you changed some things under the hood for 3.0 …pattern follow and all ,
Bottom line is , renoise uses more recources then before , gui wise …
fix it


please

Not trying to derail your thread, but an observation;

It might be true that v3.x is a bit more resource hungry than 2.8 (which is debatable of course), but this massive problem of 80% activity when there is, ostensibly, nothing going on in Renoise is of course a huge problem for you.

I have seen nothing like it here and I wonder if anyone else is seeing this kind of issue?

If no, then it’s probably something peculiar to your system and might not necessarily be something wrong with Renoise at all.
Have you tried reproducing the problem on a different system at all?

fair enough friend , but if it would be someting specific to my system ,then the same problem would occur in renoise 2.8 don 't you think …?
I lowered the frame rate even more , and cpu usage does come down …but compared to ren 2.8 …the difference is big …
I uses the spectrum analyzer/scopes all the time when building in reaktor , it’s really a pity …
Conclusion , renoise 3.0 needs more optimazation on the gui part /processing

Yes most likely, but i don’t know to what degree.

I’m pretty convinced that some optimizations would do wonders on your side as well.

Let’s first take your listed hardware specs back:
“I am testing renoise on my old ssingle core cpu amd 3600+ ,1 gig memory , graphics card 256 mb not shared”
“edirol ua 25”

You did not disclosed detailed specifications about your graphics card and your platform in all recent posts which could give us some idea of what GPU performance you really have (i will explain this later).
I suspect your platform is Windows XP when seeing your memory size of 1GB.
You have an AMD Sempron 3600+ (manilla) which contains all the mininum features that one need to be able to run Renoise. I assume that you don’t have Quiet’n’Cool enabled in the BIOS and that you don’t have power options set to disable devices after somewhat minutes (also related to the fact that 2.8.2 runs smooth on your machine).

I’m not going to put any judgement on the hardware here, but if i would be allowed to give you a real good advice, i would at least do a memory update to 4GB, because that alone would already make a large difference compared to the 1 GB that you use now.
I’m not sure what type of harddrives you have, but if these are 5400RPM and Windows has to swap a large amount of your memory consequently, that is definite food for slowing down a lot of stuff because those kind of harddrives definitely will not be as fast as RAM and if stuff consquently has to be exchanged between HD and RAM, these kind of flip-flop actions do stress the cpu more than necessary. I’m sure you have your creativity reasons to force yourself into a minimalistic setup, but the memory upgrade would not make the massive impact to e.g. force you to having to reactivate all your plugins because they rely on system hardware that has been swapped.

As said (because you still declare Renoise 2.8.2 running smoothly), there may be more things that changed under the hood than just Renoise code that might be responsible for your cpu resource issues;
Just hypothetically speaking: If there is some kind of SSE4 instruction set involved in a new procedure that e.g. your own CPU has to overcome differently because it perhaps doesn’t support SSE4, this means that:technically, Renoise 3.0 is actually optimized to use the best performance options, but the AMD 3600+ is not supporting it and has to emulate that instead (requiring much more processing power).
I say hypothetically, because frankly, as far as i understand is that if the support of any SSE set would be used that your cpu can’t support, you would not be able to run Renoise at all, but there might be certain kind of instructions that newer cpu’s support natively that your Sempron has to emulate or calculate requiring much more resources.
The former idea can also root inside a GPU feature through DirectX that your graphics card does not support where newer cards do a much better job or perhaps a new DirectX 10/11 feature is used here that DirectX 9c (Windows XP its last DirectX edition) has to emulate through the CPU engine. But in this case, more people with Windows XP should probably experience similar issues with Renoise 3.0 (i’m curious if there are Windows XP users around that have similar issues with Renoise 3.0 and those who have Renoise 3.0 running smoothly, i’m curious about your hardware specs).

Then there can also be compiler options that cause specific hickups, but i assume the devs have sorted these out in advance:
An updated compiler does something by default that the previous compiler version didn’t (in this latter case, 2.8.2 recompiled with the new compiler would cause the same problems, i’m not sure if this can be tested in the background)
There could also be a compiling flag set for debugging reasons during this beta, perhaps causing your extra dramatic CPU overhead.

There may be many more situations which can be a cause for these performance issues besides just the actual code.

XP user here (at least until someone hacks into my computer and convince me otherwise…)

When UI is throttled to 60fps, Renoise 3.0b6 and 2.8 is using the same amount of CPU (3-6%)
When UI framerate is uncapped, the CPU consumption grows to about 10-15% for 2.8 and 20-25% for 3.0

I would never run the framerate uncapped though, even if it doesn’t hurt the audio thread.
Edit: in fact, I would suggest removing this option entirely. What is the advantage of running Renoise@500fps ?

I don’t think that necessarily follows.

I certainly understand your logic though, and this would seem (in a practical way) to be sound reasoning. But there are many things to consider here. It could be something simple like a graphics driver update.

It smoothes pattern scrolling a bit when using insane BPMs and/or LPBs.

In some areas, yes, but the GUI updates with e.g. pattern follow should actually be a little bit faster in 3.0.

Did a lot of GUI performance finetuning in the past weeks. Double-checked this on some old crappy computer, and Renoise’s GUI actually performs amazing there, even when being under high Audio CPU load.

Not sure what exactly causes this for you. Hard to say without any further infos.

Please note that things like note recording and so on do not depend on the GUI frame rate, and are also not getting less precise when the GUI starts to stutter.
So all this at the end is “just” a cosmetical issue anyway in most cases.

Do you use two-screen monitor setup?
I think that some gui bigs “needs” it.

@ vv I have an amd athlon , the highest spec cpu for that time .(2005)( slf assembled )
My laptop is dead …which was single core intel centrino running at 2.8 .
Both comp.were top of line at the moment , with a dedicated graph.card.
REnoise 2.8 ran very fluint , and still does on the amd ATHLON, no problems with the gui refresh rate .
I am not up to date with the current line of quadcore icpu’s etc , only thing I do know , is that my current system is more then enough for a sample based tracker and reaktor /zebra/ my nord modular editor…that’s why I don’t upgrade my system .
LIke I said , I run reaper audio tracks and automation lanes antialiased, high zoom factor , 3dsmax ( mesh smooth curves set to 4 …for those who know what I am talking about ) , no problems .
Renoise 3 pattern follow on = .gui refrsh problems , unable to record
Now don’t tell me this is normal .

taktik, I have a har time believing this .
do the test again , try to record notes at 50´% cpu , pattern follown on …
I am sorry to say this , but note recording is verry bad when gui starts to stutter .
Navigating trough renoise with high cpu load is ok , it’s just the pattern editor set to pattern follow that is making me crazy and unable to finish tracks with renoise 3.0

Yes i suspected, but since you did not mentioned it, i searched for AMD 3600+ (the only data that you provided in that particular response) which turned up this link for the Sempron cpu’s as the first wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia…microprocessors

If you submit this kind of generic data, you may perhaps not be aware but that still might be no more than a needle in a haystack.
Same as with the screenshots:you blame Renoise for a problem but when asked for a more prominent screenshot of the processes tab that actually shows how much CPU Renoise itself does consume personally, you still respond with a screenshot displaying “generic” used cpu resources that all your processes are part of, not just Renoise.

We supply the “help us to help you” motto for the very reason it stands for.

You may perhaps be very content with working with almost 10 year old hardware, but that is not a common practice. (on the bright side:At least your hardware is that good, that is survived for so long)
I’m not sure if Taktik’s crappy old testcomputer has the same age and same AMD cpu…That might be a necessary key-element as well.

@gentleclockdivider: Simply post a screeny of your processes. Maximize the window and order it by cpu usage would help alot. Your current screenshots dont show anything than just high cpu usage. This wont help anyone.

Or simply download http://processhacker.sourceforge.net/ process hacker (open source). Take a screenshot of the full process list ordered by cpu usage and a second screenshot of the threads of process “renoise.exe” (right click->properties->threads), when you have high cpu usage.

I think your problem could be easily fixed, when you give the devs more informations.

@renoise devs: maybe you could add something to dump these informations to a log file. Something like “Help->Dump current process performance infos …” with all needed informations, so you could better debug these issues.

large portion of text coming

I am sorry but what more info do you expect me to provide ?
Cpu type , ram amount , graphics card, soundcard …all check …
btw it’s an athlon 3000+ , bit slower than I thought , but that not relevant .
Graphics= ati radeaon 9550 , 256 mb ,internal dac at 400Mh .
1 gig ram , I know it’s not much )
Taskmanger is clearly showing that renoise is consuming the most cpu when scopes are visible , closing renoise or scopes brings cu down…what more info do you want ??
See the 3 screenshots , clearly indicating that screen estate is an issue in renoise 3.0.
For me it is totally clear that this is not caused by an unstable system or hardwarefailure , it’s an old internet free audio and graphics only machine .
No trojan shit , no wormholes ,no virusses and no creampie cumshots etc…on this one .
I just cleaned all the dust and ventilators etc …
I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEms with other audio programs, when it comes to screen and gui animation and realtime RECORDING.
I’ll provide a few more screenshots of the cpu usage , but the main problem ( pattern follow ) is abit more difficult to give examples off ,.
It’s not unresponsive and stuttering all the time , but only when renoise reaches a certain cpu usage the lagging begins, playing feels like it has a lot of latency …while 2.8 does not .
Taktik states that a laggy gui does not affect recording/playing , I know it does, the laggy pattern follow indicator is skipping lines/recorded notes …
A verry simple example , a reaktor effect consuming 30%cpu , I can play a vsti nicely on my keyboard when there is no pattern scrolling ,
as soon as I start the pattern follow ( empty song ) , the playing feels like it has a huge amount of latency.
IN renoise 2.8 it’all good ;
I provide 2 wave files .
-1 wave file …renoise 2.8 = recorded live keyboard banging of audio realism drummachine , renoise tempo set to 164 ; lpb to 8 …I left on the metronome …so you can hear the timing , I loaded an effect set to dry …that consumes 30% cpu.
Nothing is happening otherwise , just pattern scrolling an empty song and playing along the metronome…recording is done in an external audio editor,timing and playing feels kinda right .
-2 …same but done in renoise 3.0 , ANd I swear I did not play off time on purpose .pattern scroll messed with the timing/overall performance

I am so tired of repeating this over and over again …isn’t it crystal clear that this is a renoise 3 issue …maybe some more ram mem. might cure it , and when it does it will prove that renoise 3.0 is more resource heavy than 2.8
Minimizing renoise , and setting a higher h-spacing value reduces lag , but not enough .
It’s evident that when framerate is set to unlimited it uses more cpu then 2.8 ( even at lower settings) , why is it then so difficult to assume that the overal graphic performance uses more cpu power .
Maybe adding the new modulation envelope required a partial rewrite of the existing gui code…some errors slippedin , , don’t know just guessing …
Taktik , if you can garantee that nothing has changed to the tracker code itself and gui updates (pattern editor) , i’ll stop nagging and upgrade my system
, if something did change …the problem lies there
@ taktik or anyone else in the posession of single core computer for testing…

I’ll upload a song ( you need to download 2 freebies , sq8l , and u-he tyrell .see links …tyrell takes up most of the cpu part …I didn’t render these parts because it would bring down cpu usage )
When playing back this song in ren.2.8 gui updates (pattern editor/scopes/spectr.an.) are smooth , n renoise 3.0 they are not …
The cpu usage is between 40 and 60 % , roughlythe same in renoise 3.0…@ pattern 17 most of the action happens in an otherwise verry
calm song , but still able to record/jamin new notes flawlesly , and smooth gui pattern follow .
Not in r.3
That’s all there is to it , I can’t do anything more , thanks for all those trying out to find the problem , but like I said, I am 99% sure it is renoise 3.0 code related , and not a hardware or o.s. problem that would have mysteriously popped up out of nowhere .

Renoise 2.8 is a nice simple , somewhat flashy jacket .comfortable to wear and keeps you warm/dry .
Then jacket 3.0 arrives , all of a sudden the jacket doesn’t feel so comfortable anymore when hicking the great outdoors .
-Did you change anything to the fabric materials , new fibers new coating …?

  • No we have not , but we integrated some nice gloves and a sophisticated system which turns your urine into water…so you can piss while hicking …
    think camelback/ the dessert oufits from ‘dune’ (the movie ) …
    -Ohh great , but I have the feeling the jacket doesn’t keep me warm anymore and feels less comfortable …
    -Well maybe you have lost some weight or this years winter is more nasty …
    -No , I haven’t lost any weight etc…
    Well that was a bad analogy but I am too tired to think of a better one.

example song link

https://app.box.com/…m6x12aaair9nj6i
Sound examples of laggyrecording
https://app.box.com/…wmpl8o45mkt7o7c
https://app.box.com/…7c44kti8d0xg95g

screenshot links

https://app.box.com/…cspbx9r7mh2glmd
https://app.box.com/…bobpg7iksso5r0s
https://app.box.com/…npzycxwwe4l8cok

sq8 freeware synth( amazing one …)
http://www.buchty.ne…index.html#sq8l

u-he tyrell

http://www.amazona.d…r-tyrell-n6-v3/