"Артём" & " Encounter at Sengaku-ji (千角寺での出会い)"


(DVE42) #1

Well, little to say here.
First one is “Артём”, second one is “Encounter at Sengaku-ji (千角寺での出会い)”.
Both are seqenced in Renoise, “Artyom” is far more tracker-ish as I actually typed/played alot there, “sengaku” is far more recorded live, but the rhytm machinery is there.
Both tracks sit on soundcloud (can I embed here?), click the links to check them out.
Thanks for listening, glad to hear any comments of course.


(lilith) #2

I like both tracks a lot. Well done. Mix is also outstanding!


(DVE42) #3

Thanks (and I dig your login:)).
Yes well mix is just plain Renoise, although I do use a hardware mixer sometimes. In case of “Encounter” it was used to reverberate few instruments, but both tracks were mixed down in Renoise.


#4

Nice tracks, liked them both but to my taste encounter is better!

  • but when i read LANDR i suddenly felt chest pain :stuck_out_tongue:

Checked some more tracks from your cloud, you are gooood man! keep it going! :star_struck:


(DVE42) #5

Yeah well I do feel LAND sort of trumped on few aspects, but overally, some of my friends prefer LANDR master from no master. Do you have some other solutions? I mean, do you master yourself (In Linux, where I sit, there’s more limited toolset for this)? Or you have somebody who can do it in an affordable manner?


(DVE42) #6

And thanks of course:)


#7

well - depends on material, if it’s mixed OK i can help you out with that for free, if you like the outcome of course :slight_smile: or…

Well - you have Reaper, (which is free as Renoise from my perspective) you can use it with no limitations for 60 days then just continue or reinstall, soo, it’s “free” sort of… and you can learn that way a lot

Nonetheless i bought recently mixbus 32c with all native plugins, and it sounds amazing, simple to use, perfect (to me) overall.

Mixbus (ordinary - not 32c) is cheap as much as renoise in price, so it’s affordable, and you could manage to pull it yourself with some learning curve ofc. It doesn’t differ from classic DAW realm, you just need to explore a bit with mastering, learn here and there and you are good to go!

  • i love that after rendering mixbus show analyzer which gives a good overview of a tune parameters!

word from past: i have a lot of experience in music as i’ve studied music so i’m not just a dude who bought DAW and started mixing lol


(lilith) #8

Do you export your Renoise tracks to Mixbus? What does Mixbus give you which is missing in Renoise? I know Ardour (which is Mixbus basically) and Reaper.


(DVE42) #9

I second lilith’s questions. I quickly downloaded Mixbus and insofar, I exported “Артём” to tracks from Renoise, put that all in Mixbus and …failed miserably to produce anything better than in Renoise :thinking:


#10

@lilith, yes i export my tracks (when i’m satisfied with the overall outcome, so i can mix in peace).

  • and i often after some minor tweaks in renoise (if needed) re-render tracks from renoise and replace old ones in the mixbus session with edited (recent ones)

Renoise doesn’t lack that part i’m talking about, it’s just not convenient as i’m used to, coming from let’s say ableton workground. It’s not impossible, it’s rather cluttered and messy when you have complex parallel audio chains

  • mixbus gives me relaxation to focus on mixing in particular. I can create parallel chain on one click in mixbus, in renoise i have to insert send effect ( and when i’m making complex drum layers in one instrument - it can get pretty messy & ugly and time-consuming) and to route to individual FX chain (in the instrument FX tab) and imagine 3 drum elements with let’s say 3 layers per one, with each sent to individual chain, for example with parallel compression, or parallel whatever eq>dist>comp>maximizer or whatever really, now try to gain-match those two chains ( take 2 chains for example, while i’m used to a lot of them at same time whatsoever), mute one send device, now mute second, now mute original signal, now edit distortion for example, now you have to gain-match again with the root signal chain etc. It makes a lot of work for few clicks in (almost) every other daw… I’ve mentioned ableton FX racks for example of easiness, but since i’m fully dedicated to renoise and i decided so, i’m not overcomplicating creative process in renoise, to avoid headache with complex sound design as i’m used to in ableton for example. ~ so i just separate my proces by mixing in Mixbus further.

Sound design in renoise is lacking easiness of managing multiple parallel chains (be it in instruments or in tracks itself)

  • NOTE: now people gonna chime in and say, you can do that already with send device - YES, but managing more than 1 or 2 parallel chains in renoise is hard work, as i’m used to 2 clicks for that. And i’m used to manage a lot of parallel chains,

  • for example, i have 1 kick drum with 2-3 layers, going to one chain, now that chain has one parallel chain for parallel compression (example: punch character), another is “room ambient character” where i have 2nd parallel chain with eq with hp filter, some eq notching and some compression/ or hard limiting with boost of high shelf to even out high freq peaks, and i would have one more chain for let’s say, sub boomy effect with lowpass filter and some maybe distortion or phasing whatever, now i have snare with same stuff (not exactly same, but rather for snare optimization (from my experience)) aaaand so on. Now try to manage that drum kit with lots of parallel chains… for me it just isn’t too convenient as i’m used to.

~ @DVE42 well, if you have no idea what to do with tracks, yes, you will do same as you could in renoise. I just keep separating process between creating idea and mixing in particular ( doesn’t mean that i don’t mix in renoise as well).

-if you just render tracks from mixbus, without further processing, you will get same sounding as without it. It isn’t about mixbus “coloring” tracks “on purpose”, it’s about you using it, and how you feel when using it. If you are not aware of null test topic in general, please read some crutial informations before expecting your daw to polish your tracks for you or make them even slightly “better sounding” at all (just by rendering in some daw in particular)

NO ~ there is no magic dust to make your tracks awesome!
Don’t expect miracles from simple rendering, like Fab Dupont does to his mixes/recordings.
Mixing itself is an art.

to quote my sentence:
* i love that after rendering mixbus show analyzer which gives a good overview of a tune parameters!
i was referring to this analyzer in particular: 48%20PM

Sorry if i sound rude, i didn’t intent to… :confused:


#11
  • and yeah, totally overlooked Reaper, everything is possible in reaper as well as in Mixbus (Ardour) in terms of mixing only. Just named mixbus as i use it as my personal choice.

(lilith) #12

Thanks for the long answer :slight_smile:

Mixbus is coloring the sound a bit, which is the special thing about mixbus. So it should sound a bit different when just importing it into mixbus.

As I never find an end and as I mix usually while composing I prefer an all in one solution.

Do you mix your tracks in Renoise before exporting them? Or what do you apply in Renoise, EQ, compression, etc.?


#13

i prefer all-in-one solution as well, but when you have assignment only to mix tracks with some vocals or so, would you do it in renoise or in reaper/mixbus? - or to say, you have some uneven vocal to edit, you can edit it’s volume by regions in reaper/mixbus, and make it smooth, or use some vst in renoise (some auto leveler? or even worse limit/compress sound source) and mess even more, or even harder - chop in renoise individual segments of vocal, and re-arrange in adequate bpm to match tracks from instrumental?

I would like to see some parallel chain madness in renoise for example soloing the chain on single click (within instrument, not in mixer) without messing with send device for muting the source - for example (sorry for writing this again and again :confused: )
it would be all-in-one stop for me making music on my beloved linux laptop in the mountains far from anything!

i apply everything in renoise in the creative process in the making (you name it, eq, distortion, signal follower to make mutliband dynamics or followed by simple gainer to make simple transient designer - just to make snare punchier! or reverb as send for group tracks followed by eq, + eq before reverb for fine-tuning…) you name it literally!

My favourite ( non native) are Tokyo Dawn Labs slick eq M and kotelnikov GE (in renoise), in mixbus i use all native harrisons plugins which are awesome like drum character which is something similar to TDR Nova - multiband transient/dynamics eq which has attack and tail unlinked parameters,or spectral compressor which is awesome for fine-tuning overall song and making it silky smooth

I just don’t complicate with parallel chains as much as i used to, because soloing one chain in sampler effect chains tab is not so easy in renoise, for me it’s a pain in the ass :P, but combining native audio processors you can achieve anything literally, with your imagination ofc :slight_smile:

i get soooo creative when creating parallel chains, to me they are root of sound design exploration!

regarding mixbus coloration~

  • No, not a single daw should colour your tracks at all. Disable peak limiter on master, disable all levelers/compressor/limiter on individual tracks and busses, disable (tape type) distortion on master and on bus channels, do not use channnel eq, and null-test should be positive. There are enabled by default some things in mixbus, but when you disable them, it’s not doing any dsp processing. By default in reaper, you don’t have analogue type emulation ready and set like in mixbus so, you should hear no difference at all. :slight_smile:

#14

i would help anytime anyone, but before asking silly questions @DVE42 , please read and educate a bit more about what should daw do, how it works, what goes on under the hood, how should you do what (or anything that you might find struggling to understand - or you are not quite sure if something is good/bad, or how should it behave, or whatever), because google should be your friend. It’s way less hassle for you and fellas around here to google question rather than asking here, because by the time someone replies you, or tries to explain you something that’s already well documented many times, you could find your answer, and even take a bite of some more wisdom that’s already there waiting for your hunger.

Don’t get me wrong, i’m not trying to be rude.


(DVE42) #15

They say there’s no such thing as silly questions. And who was or wasn’t rude here will be for the readers to judge, for me it’s quite obvious.


#16

sure, if you stick only to specific part, it’s obvious, but before even reading my reply, consider this renoise forum, not audiosex nor kvr nor gearslutz nor anything specific related to audio production, so before expecting some wizardry to fall in your hands, you have to dig in a bit yourself rather than just asking something that’s been answered sooo many times on sooo many places.

~ And again - your reply to my long is plain stupid, by reading out of context. Your choice is to ask question, i decided to help, but it turns out that it’s better to avoid any contact with people who are not being able to “search” instead just asking and being rude to someone who is trying to help.

Before you claimed

I second lilith’s questions. I quickly downloaded Mixbus and insofar, I exported “Артём” to tracks from Renoise, put that all in Mixbus and …failed miserably to produce anything better than in Renoise :thinking:

you should be aware how daw work in order to get expected results

  • if you do not know how daw works, how audio is being processed, what goes on etc, how can you expect something, or reproduce something that you want without knowing how it works at all?

  • claiming simply that it doesn’t work is just plain ridiculous.

  • Delete my replies if you feel insulted or anything above mentioned, i do not care from now on.

Have a good day


(DVE42) #17

I don’t feel insulted. I also never claimed any Mixbus faults, nor that it has no merits. I just said I failed to use it, which shouldn’t be a surprise to you, after all, I just downloaded it. I won’t try to outbid the claims you make about your experience, but you shuld be aware you style of writing is very offensive, borderline trolling. Examples

your reply to my long is plain stupid,

(no comments)

if you do not know how daw works

(using DAWs since 1997)

claiming simply that it doesn’t work is just plain ridiculous

noone claimed that, again you’re fighting the straw man you’ve created.
And finally:

i’m not trying to be rude

On the contrary, you should try hard not to be rude, I bet you’d find it far harder.
Still, I will distill down all non-insults from your posts and use them constructively. Maybe applying to Mixbus, maybe to Ardour, I don’t know.
regards