Faders Or Knbos ?

They both have pros and cons, the current faders take up huge amounts of space especially in the dsp chain, this could be greatly reduced with knobs.

What do you think?

I hate knobs. I am running renoise in 1600x1200 and so the controls are very small anyway but clicking on those annoying little nipples is so disgusting :D

That was the main reason for me not to buy Rebirth-338 some years ago.

knobs suck.

the best would be a simple value which you just need to point and twist the mousewheel without needing to click or to drag anything. (IMHO) :)

The only knobs I really like are the ones in Synth1. And that’s because of how they function. (you can easily see what goes on and from what value to what value you’re changing it to). But sliders are visually more representative and works better tactily, imho.

Not much difference, IMHO. It may depend on the specific function.

But I’ll go with knobs because they take up less space. Of course linear-movement knobs, not circular. (Linear: you drag the mouse up/down. Circular: you drag the mouse in circles.)

I prefer faders.

if you work really fast, faders are more eyecatching.
so my personal opinion is faders.

i love renoise for what it is… :lol:
not what it could be.

i guess i’d prefer knobs in the DSP section.
but you should not have to control them in a circular manner.
there are a lot of synths that have knobs which can or even have to be dragged linearly, which is more pleasant than the other way mentioned above.

“Takes up less space” is a pretty bad argument. What’s important is at-a-glance overview and tactile interaction in a keyboard/mouse context. Software knobs are and always have been poor simulacra of the real thing, and as much as i completely adore knobs on a midi controller or whatever (and i use 2 for renoise), the reason i totally abhor Fruity or Reason is all the knob action.

If “takes up less space” is an issue, you could instead argue that DSPs should be horizontally scalable, and the faders with them. But knobs… Argh.

If Renoise went for knobs instead of faders, i’d be incredibly disappointed and probably a little furious, since the very digital nature of Renoise gives it a credibility the toybox look of its competitors lack. I want a piece of software that creates sound, i don’t want to “pretend” i’m using a “real moog” or some other bull, like so many softsynths go for. It’s not a toy, it’s a tool. It’s real, it’s not make-believe.

the problem with knobs is really that you have a row of blobs, all with some white dots on them (if they are really unstyly) and you dont have a good overview about whats going on. knobs are okay for cutoff or resonance for example, but a gainer with a knob as control is a real pain.

Could not describe it better.

We should instead try to find a way to collapse the “big” sliders / devices when you currently dont need or want to see them. This will save more space than any widget layout change.

Something like this suggestion by Alexander M Korn perhaps?

…would be a nice feature for tracks as well, something like:

I’ve read another suggestion somewhere on the background forums…

Replace sliders for knobs, shift-click knob pops up a horizontal overlay slider and right-click pops up a vertical slider that you can adjust.
Also manually typing in the exact value by hand wouldn’t be a bad default option either.

i voted for faders… because mouses dont have thumbs!!! :D

This doesn’t help with good overview in my opinion… In any case, what about an option? Faders being default, knobs being optional. Because virtual knobs suck.

easy, faders.


values-you-can-hover-over-and-tweak-with-mousewheel!! :drummer:

Sliders like the ones we have now gives the best visual overview IMO, especially when automated. Optional slider/knob/value would of course be the best… but it’s not a top priority issue to me.

One positive aspect of using BOTH knobs and sliders (oh, and values) is that it makes it possible to make an “optimal” layout for each device, which also makes it easier to remember what each knob/slider did (without having to read.
…hm… would be even easier if you could assign different colours to each slider.

Yeah, why not.

Anyway I’m quite happy with the sliders right now, but knobs could be used when there is very little space, aka some place in the mixer or when you have a lot of commands for a VST effect. Or, maybe even better: have some small sliders, like half the size of the current ones (when they make sense, not always).