Hi, as I told a really long time ago, some plugs GUI don´t work in “ReNoise-Fullscreen-mode” correctly. And I know it since a ling time too, you allways told me / us, thats thats a problem of those kind of plugs AND this plugs has same problem while running in Ableton live ( don´t wonder, because same routine, same programmers :-))
Reaper 4 is now the second programm that brings a fullscreen-mode in which those plugs runs without the problems in ReNoise happens. I´m really shure, ReNoise-Fullscrenn-Mode is a quirks (ok, Ableton too) and no standard routine.
And you told about lions fullscreen-mode, that ReNoise supports a fullscreenmode since a long time. Sorry men, Lions fullscreen works, and your´s not at all!! It´s a big difference.
I learned: If you don´t know how to fix anything, you allways write: Its a problem of the Plug-ins. But really often it is a problem of ReNoise … but anyways.
(I think about, that you never fixed the problem sync/MOTU-BOM thats of course a problem of ReNoise is too! Or what do you think why that problem only happens in ReNoise and in no other host? And really, I could test it in most hosts.)
The difference between Renoise and most other hosts is that Renoise uses DirectX for its GUI. A lot of other hosts simply use the common dialogs from Windows.
When plugins are also using DirectX for their GUI, this sometimes simply collides and isn’t much that can be done about it because some DirectDraw functionalities can only be accessed by one application at a time.
When you choose to allow Renoise running full-screen, these DirectX options are then fully used and can be in conflict with other plugin GUI dialogs.
If you want Renoise to use most optimal screenspace but not have it in conflict with specific plugins that don’t work with Renoise full DirectX mode (You may interpret this as gaming mode), then simply “maximize” Renoise instead of using the Fullscreen option.
As Renoise is multiplatform and DirectX in Windows only I have often wondered why DirectX/DirectDraw is used rather than Open GL (or other crossplatform solution.)
Initial guess would be familiarity of the API (for early Renoise at least) but then what is used for the GUI in the Unix based version? Would it not make sense to use a graphical API which is the same across all three?
(JdS: Sorry if this is a slight sidetrack from your direct issues.)
I guess because OpenGL is pretty much a hell with certain graphic cards and you would probably then get a lot more complaints about Renoise not working with Graphics card Brand X model Y etc…
I have had various issues with different NVidia and ATI cards when software was using OpenGL engines. The solutions varied from downloading the latest to a specific Nvidia Driver set to fix it in in certain cases none of the solutions worked simply because the GPU wasn’t compatible with some of the OpenGl technologies that were required to work.
The idea of OpenGL is nice, but a developer nightmare in most cases (regarding support and maintenance).
Can’t you say the same (re hardware support) with DirectX though? The card needs to support DirectX9 or DirectX10 (along with the OS). Although with DirectDraw eing old technology now I guess it being unsupported is something we are unlikely to come across. Unless Microsoft phase it out entirely (or is it already Direct2D now/fully backwards compatible anyway?).
No other crossplatform solutions? Was more thinking that it would seem a solution that would work across all three platforms Renoise is on, whereas currently there must be at least two display technologies which may both need maintaining at times. Personally never come into trouble with things that required OpenGL to run but maybe I’ve been lucky. And I have never gone graphical programming so really can’t comment from that angle. Just wondered why a uniform approach wasn’t used. And bringing up here as the DirectX seems to be the cause of JdS’s problem.
Getting every single plugin that exists on this world working perfectly in Renoise, is an art of its own. There are thousand of plugins out there, and maybe a dozen of hosts. Both, hosts and plugins, have a really hard time in trying to support all the slight but possibly important differences and needs. The plugin standard is relatively open, aka, there are things which !can! be different among hosts and are no “malfunctions”. There’s nothing we can do against it. This will always be a problem.
BUT if those plugins do work in other host’s fullscreen modes, then this means it is possible to get it working in Renoise too. Yay. But why some plugins do not work in Renoises fullscreen mode is nearly impossible to find out for us. We do need the help of the plugin developers to know why their plug does not work in our fullscreen mode. Plugins are a black box for us. Then we can either fix this on our side, or the plugin devs can fix this on their side.
So pointing with the finger on this does not really help, or is a prove that we did something “wrong”. We need to find out the “why” first, then work together with the plugin devs on a solution. Let’s simply do so, by contact the plugins devs to report that problem, and see what we or they can do? You guys can help us a lot by contacting the plugin devs (for us).
DirectX, Open GL: JS is talking about the OSX version here. And if it would be Open GL we’d simply have to deal with other problems in other plugs Its not open GL on all platforms because there first was Renoise on Windows, then each new platform we supported got its own as “native” and efficient as possible implementation.
And please: I’ve done my best to answer this as detailed and “neutral” as possible, explain why we do what we we do - which problems we do have to face with. Let’s not make this just another “But I’m right!” flamewar, and instead simply work on this together to find a solution please?
Thx for informations. Shure you´re right.
It was´nt and will never be a “But I´m right”. It was a: “It´s not a problem / bug of the (some) plug and look there, they have a kind of fullscreen-mode that works” and an answere about ReNoisers wrote that ReNoise has fullscreen before lion. Nothing more than that.
Really, it´s not my intension to say when I´m right or when not. Don´t need that. Taktik, we do a little bit same kind of job, and you really doing a really great job (!, yes, I mean it like that!), so do´nt missunderstand and be not disapointed … Renoise is very superb, inovated and “deutsch: unschlagbar in Preis / Leistung”. OK? And sorry, I wrote that. I don´t need fullscreenmode of renoise … It´s ok, no problem …
There is really nothing that I fault because ReNoise, only this little small thing: kind of “sync” while scroll in pattern ok, but it´s another thread gg - I think you´ll find a little fix for that in some later versions (a button or something like that) and so, no, I will not discuss about that ;-), no long thread …