FX Commands is NOT ok...

Hello,

I’m Renoise user since the first versions and was away from music for few years because the born of my son. Now I’m back and installed my new registered Renoise 2.8.2 (my last registered was 2.1 I think)

when I opened my songs all of them are not playing right… I tried to use that convertion button but not change a single line in the entire song… ok… I’ll need to redo all the FX and DSP settings… :confused:

But when I went to my FX commands becomes a really mess… the vibrato is a complete trash… it’s even out of sync! :(

for exemple, I was using this at one of my songs

07F0

then I converted to

0TF0

the result is COMPLETE different… tried SEVERAL other values, ANY of them is usable… all sounds out of sync… :(

another problem is about the turn the notes on/off during the vibrato, I could to that just adding the instrument number or not in the column, not is ignored… tryed simply remove the FX commands and the result is completely different… it’s a complete trash to me… :(

I download 2.1 to make a test to make sure it’s the version I had, and it’s perfect…

is there a way to make the FX works like ALWAYS worked for years? because this new version is useless for me like this… :confused:

I realized that 3.0 was released just after post this… downloaded the registered version, installed but unfortunately have the SAME problem… :(

Hmm. Did you try the vibrato FX in a new song ? Does it have the same behaviour ?

I had problems with the 0Gxx - command once, but I guess it was just my newbishness.

Can you please provide a simple example song (created in Renoise 2.1, I guess) that clearly demonstrates the problem you’re experiencing?

Could also be useful to provide a .wav render of exactly what it sounds like in 2.1 vs 2.8 or 3.0, just to be sure that we’re hearing the same thing.

Do you mean the song upgrade function?

If you want your old songs to behave in the same way, you should not use the upgrade function.

In fact, if you intend to work on some old 2.1 songs, then you’re much better off simply continuing to use 2.1 for that purpose. We do try to make sure that old songs always load and play back the same, but we simply cannot guarantee it 100%.

When I said that my old tracks are not playing right, they are really playing completely different… aside the FX columns become a big mess, every track is not sounding as supposed to sound, I need to redo the DSP, EQ and mixing all over again… and you don’t need my songs to see that, try with for exemple any Hunz tracks… they sound also VERY different from the CD.

How can we keep using renoise with this big problem when we update? this is a serious issue… if we want to play them live we can’t simply use Renoise anymore, we need to render our tracks to Wave and that’s it, forget them without be able to upgrade them… if one day we want to do some change at our old songs, we need almost start from zero again… this is not right… :confused:

I’ll do it soon as possible, but it’s also VERY easy to test out there…

at 2.1, load at #01 a string sample (make a continous loop)… using this sample write this on the first line:

C-4 01 07F0  

then on the next lines write this block, copy/paste on each compass without the note:

 01 07f0  
 07f0  
 01 07f0  
 01 07f0  
 07f0  
 01 07f0  
 07f0  
 01 07f0  

play, listen the result, cool? save it.

open at 3.0, will not work… ok, you changed the FX values (aside I can’t see any good explanation to change those things which was working since renoise 1.0!!!)

so you need to update the code, replace 07f0 for 0Tf0 like your new manual says… play the song…

here the problems:

with these problems this become unusable, pure trash… :(/>/>

I would like to know why the hell the devs touched on this feature? did they even tested it? probably not… :confused:
when did you changed the FX values? on 2.5? when? why? could you tell us?

Seams I’m the only one using renoise as a modern tracker, not a VST loader only… :\

yeah, the upgrade function… but like I said, with or without that nothing was changed in the song, like I never pressed anything… NO CHANGE! IGNORED! what that really do for real?

I understand about the DSP because you are improving and the same values will sound different, that’s ok… but you can’t simply mess with the FX columns, this is a big issue that must be fixed.

I bought for the SECOND time Renoise to continue to work with it, but didn’t expected that buying it AGAIN will simply destroy all my pass work that I can’t simply let go… Renoise really doesn’t interest to me anymore without the old tracker FX working, because is something I’m confortable to use and Renoise it’s the only one that have it (or HAD it). Without that there’s not much more difference between Renoise and the other softwares…

If now to do a nice sliced vibrato, I’ll need to find a good VST of each, set and mix them right with the track, which will give me a lot of work and it’s one of the causes that I like to do it on Renoise instead of elsewhere, and become a kind of mark of my work… and I really can’t find an exemple of other artists doing it… that’s explain I’m the only pissed off about this very bad change in Renoise. :_(

As dblue pointed out, would it be possible for you to upload some kind of example?
Even if 3.0 does not play back 100% identically, perhaps we could figure out how to get the same results.

You don’t have to post an entire song of course, just a snippet that demonstrate the problem.

I would suspect this is because the tracks on the CD are in fact mastered in a studio?

Whether it’s easy or not, it’s always best if you can provide the exact song for us to test with. That way we can guarantee 100% that we’re experiencing exactly the same thing you are. That was my only point.

Ok, I’ve recreated your basic example in Renoise 2.1 using a simple looped sound, and then I’ve tested it in Renoise 2.8 and 3.0. I can confirm that it no longer plays the same as it did back in 2.1.

Somewhere down the line there’s been an update to the player engine. Simply putting the instrument number into the pattern no longer resets the sample volume in conjunction with the volume fade command.

In 2.8 and 3.0 you should do something like this instead:
4927 renoise-hajas-volume-slice.png

The old 7xx command is “Volume Slide Down”. In 2.8 we reorganised the pattern command names, so this command is now Oxx “Fade Volume Out”.

The new Txx command is Tremolo, which is a completely different command with its own unique behaviour. You cannot simply swap volume fade commands for tremolo commands and expect them to produce the same result.

If there is a page in the manual which suggests that you can replace 7xx volume fade with Txx tremolo, then it’s a typo that should be fixed. If someone else told you to do this in private, then they simply gave you incorrect information by mistake.

I understand your frustration at some things that have changed, but let’s be fair here: None of your work has been destroyed, and you can continue to use 2.1 for those old projects if you choose to do so.

As I said before, if you want to guarantee that your old projects play back exactly as they did before, then you should simply use the old version of Renoise they were created in. That’s exactly why I keep older versions of Renoise installed, just in case.

In general, I would simply recommend that you try to embrace Renoise 3.0, and start some new projects that take advantage of all the new approaches you can take. The example you gave could be achieved in many different ways, and maybe you even find more inspiration by exploring those alternate methods? Just a thought anyway.

I’ll do it soon as possible, I’m not at studio right now… but I told you above how to reproduce the problem… if you are in front of Renoise, do that and you will see the problem, don’t need something specific to demostrate the problem, this feature simply don’t work anymore.

like I said, the main problem is not that should be perfect, the main problem is that FX doesn’t work anymore in a usable way, simply doesn’t work anymore. like I said, that’s ok about the DSP difference… but not the programming itself… which should never be needed to change anything, unleast I want to change it!

if we where talking about C programming, you can’t simply change common C functions, but you can create new ones, or you will destroy all past softwares releases.
sadly, it’s what you’ve done in Renoise, simply destroyed the past songs and even worst, avoid them to be recreated on 3.0, is not possible do that anymore.

sure, I’ll do as I wrote above for you, soon I find out some time… but, it really can do by your side in less than 1 minute, just copy/paste the code above as I said.

no, open the same song at 2.1 and 3.0, choose a pattern with lot’s of notes/FX/stuff… play them in loop, the difference is big… depending of the FX used, the sound will be more different. in my case which I use lots of tracker FX, all songs become a big crap on 3.0… :(

how much more FX do you use, more ugly the song will be in 3.0, and doesn’t matter how much to change the values in 3.0, the sound and the FX itself are VERY different! and UNSUABLE almost of times… :\

soon as arrive in my studio I’ll make that demo file to you see for yourself if you didn’t make yourself in time. don’t worry.

hmmm… I might be mistaken… since I didn’t found the old manual of Renoise, I searched for FT2 info on the web, and I found this at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastTracker_2

dunno if the info is right… really don’t remember the exact FX name… since I work since FT2 and start to use Renoise because he was able to open my old tracks, I really don’t remembered if these FX were already changed before… but now I’m almost sure that Renoise already changed these before because I’m remembering have to change something in all my past tracks.

I’ll try that soon as I arrive at my studio… thanks for the input, I REALLY hope that will work! :D

cheers

WOW! it worked in the way you suggested! thank you very much!

but PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE! do NOT EVER change AGAIN the FX table? if you want to add something new, just ADD it without touching the past features. ;)

I’ll have lots of work now to convert all the songs that I need to use soon for now, and will have to do that with any other that some label request for the release, since I don’t save the WAVE files, just the XRNS… so I’ll need to update the programming and the mixing before render and send to the label, while before I just need to render.

so please, do not make any update that will force us to update the programing… promise? :D

thank you very much! ;)

If you only need to do a bit of mixing adjustments before rendering the songs to WAV, then I would sincerely recommend that you just do that in 2.1, as it will guarantee that you get the same results you intended when you first created the song. Why put yourself through the unnecessary stress of doing it the other way?

Your choice, of course :]

because I want my songs updated, and the newer versions seams to have a more clear sound than the past ones… but if was just a remix to send, I’ll do at 2.1 for sure. ;)

cheers