Gays, Relationships, Sobriety, & Abuse

Well, I’m back in Tacoma now.

My relationship of two years has come to an end.

He decided to bring a 3rd person into the relationship. At first it seemed cool–the guy was someone I was attracted to physically and he seemed really nice, and he introduced me to the concept of sobriety and N.A. meetings. Well, then there wasn’t anything to stop my mood swings, and they both said they’d be patient with me as I go through my shit during detox (yes, it’s weed, but I did it so much that I didn’t know what life was without it)–well, that turned out to be a lie.

The new guy, named Clay, decided that now that he could change that aspect of me, he’d try to change everything else about me. He ranked on the way I did everything, I was called an emotional 8 year old over 30 times in just a couple weeks, and if I said even the word “damnit” when I found out that system files had been deleted from my computer because of a virus, he would give a 1-3 hour speech on how inappropriate that type of response was. It was the final straw for me when he started ranking on the methods I use to write music, and he’s not a musician in any way–he’s tone deaf!

After he ranked on that part of me and then told me that he wouldn’t have sex with someone that’s an emotional 14 year old because it would be like child molestation, I told my boyfriend of 2 years that I needed to have some time for myself and that I wanted to spend a couple of days at a friend’s house so I could reflect on things because I felt like I was being abused–he told me that if I did, I wouldn’t be allowed back until I’ve fixed all of my problems, which could take years. He then said it would be fine for me to stay with them as long as I have no mood swings, do not complain about anything, and offer nothing negative whatsoever.

So, I left, and I’m back in Tacoma.

To top the whole thing off, over the past 2 weeks I started getting memories that I had blocked of when I was 8 years old being molested by a church pastor for over a year, and memories of my mom and grandma teaching me that looking at women and having sexual attractions to women is is degrading to women and is wrong. I had already remembered a couple occurnces of my brother trying to molest me. I came out of the closet as gay before I ever even tried being with a woman–heck I hadn’t even kissed a woman, and I still haven’t been with a woman, and I’m 33 f**king years old! I’ve never been able to enjoy sex with guys–I always emotionally went into an “I’m sorry” mode, the same mode I went into when I was being raped by the pastor–that’s why I got involved in the s&m bondage leather community when I first had sexual relations with men. Hmmm… am I even gay? I don’t even know anymore. The attractions I’ve had to men have always been more of a thing of wishing I was more like them vs. thinking about anything sexual I could do with them.

I’m still clean (drug free) and I’m now at 34 days clean, as more and more memories of abuse from both my homelife and from churches resurface. Don’t get me wrong–I have a LOT of issues about myself that I need to work on, some things that Clay said were true, but most of the things he said were just plain abusive.

Oh, and guess where I’m staying now? With my abusive grandma and enabling mother. I had hair down to my shoulders that I cut off (basically a crew cut) because I thought I was going to have to stay at shelters, and didn’t want to deal with lice if anyone at the shelters would have had it–without grooming facilities, my hair would have been dreadlocks within a week, and you can’t get lice out of dreadlocks.

TMI? Oh well, too bad. I consider the people on this message board my friends–more true friends than most friends I’ve had in my past, especially my weed friends.

man that sounds f****ed up. i’m glad you got out of the relationship honestly… it sounds like you WERE being abused by both of them. i don’t see the purpose of a 3 person relationship anyway, so it sounds like you were being abused the moment your original BF wanted to bring clay into it.

the fact that they didn’t support you during your detox time and instead called you names and insults, that is even worse and is definitely abusive. that is a time when they need to be supportive and instead they are mocking you. :angry:

there are some people close to me (not me) who have been molested when they were children … it really affects someone for their whole life, i don’t know how you’re supposed to deal with that kind of thing. counseling and stuff i guess

as for the not being sure if you’re really gay … you should just go on a casual date type deal with a girl… to the movies and back home for coffee and maybe some kissing and a little groping – see if that turns you on… you might be surprised! :)

i’m really happy to hear that you’ve been clean for 34 days… i mean it seems like during that time when your ex bf’s were abusing you, it would have been really easy to just relapse … but you didn’t. and that takes a lot of strength. i’m proud of you man!
i know it’s tough times right now, just getting out of a relationship and trying to figure out what your life really is without the drugs … and now being at home with your mom & grandma… i can’t tell if you’re depressed or not from your post but i know that i, myself would be pretty f****ed up depressed under the same circumstances… anyway, it seems like right now is a great time for introspection and new beginnings! figure out who you really are, kinda start your life all over.

don’t let your mom and grandma get you down too much either … it’s a temporary situation, right? only some time before you get a good job, find a new place to live and you’ll be out on your own again, writing some wicked music, ready to take the world by storm… doesn’t sound too bad, right?


I think you need help from someone who can see your situation from a complete independant and objective perspective.

It looks like you tend to be abused purposely as if you were afraid of trusting the idea what it is like being loved in a true way. And that merely because it seems you haven’t been thaught to know better.

Your mom and grandma definately do not seem to be the ones to keep hanging out with, no matter if you don’t have any other place to turn to.

You mean your mom is enabling your grandma to keep being abusive or she’s an enabler in terms of your dope habit?
Well you definetly took a right step in getting out of the 3-some deal. I mean honestly you gotta think- what kind of guy parades around like is some aa or na guru master, but sleeps with a fellow addict who has yet to get clean? Considering that he is in a position where he isn’t ignorant to certain things you may have not been enlightened to yet, I would see that as kind of taking advantage of the blind in a kinda wierd twisted way, mostly because of the rightiousness he seems to try and shove down your throat. But you have to understand that it’s only abuse if you take it. It sucks because alot of people like that tend to take anything you say in deffense and twist it up and stick it back to you- which is fine in a non personal enviroment such as a meeting where these issues would be pertinent, but fed up and not a good idea in a situation such as a three way relationship (by the way, those things never tend to work unless it’s for play (no pun intended). Someone ALWAYS gets hurt).
I understand you are going through a hard time and stuff, but try your hardest not to be a victim or play into being one. I’m not saying that you should let people victimise you and just take it, but I mean don’t even give anybody the chance to do it. As soon as you recognize a potential situation where you could end up a victim or find a spot where it fits for you to jump into that role, get the f
out of there. Like for instance, your grandmother and mom’s place… try to appreciate that they are letting you stay there and are trying to help get out of a potentialy worse situation, but if leads to something similar to where you had just left off, then figure out a new way and get out of there, sometimes something like a homeless shelter and working from the depths to the top will help make you stronger and teach a little bit of humilty, don’t overlook a situation like that- it could be the best thing that ever happened to you in disquise. But I gotta tell you, If you keep running into these situations where you end up screwed, you may be the person doing the screwing… one time was a fluke, the second time is a conspiracy and the third time and so on is when you may need to address yourself. It’s a rule of thumb I use for myself when I’m trying to untangle who is being stupid in my life.
As far as not being sure of your sexuality goes… yes this is going to be pretty blunt and ugly if you are a sensitive or PC guy… but If you get a boner from being with a guy, then you are gay (or at least part gay). If you find yourself discusted after you do the deed, well then stop doing that shit to yourself. If you have yet to experience a woman, find one of your fag hag friends who could be one of those potential girls who dreams about turning a gay dude out (just for the sake of an easy kill) and if it turns you on, well you have another answer- just test the waters ans see if you like it. Put the two together. Maybe you’re bi? I mean everybody has to take an in depth look at their own sexuality and come to term with it at some point in their lives or another…

PS- for the moodswings and anxiety of a loss (yes stopping drugs is almost as painfull as losing a close friend or relative)… it took me about two years to get rid of alot of that stuff, and I still deal with it… check out a psychiatrist. Not saying you’re cuckoo, but they can help you find something to aleviate those swings in a more positive manner until you are in a postition to fix this stuff… yeah it sounds like swapping one drug for another, but you never know. Drugs can change your chemical balance, and may need to be artificialy balanced slowly until your body can take back over the job. Something as dramatic as stopping use of a chemical that you have used for years is a dramatic impact on your body and mind, and shouldn’t be taken lightly. Some people can’t fix anything until they address this first. Me- I just beat my head against the wall.

I’m definately going to be working hard at making this current living situation a temporary one.

There is a lot of help for mental issues available here in Washington state, and I’m going to be taking advantage of that. There are also a lot of shelters, food stamp programs, and many other beneficial programs available as well. It’s been interesting to note that so many of the people who are permanently living on the street or in shelters are unwilling to give up drugs.

If I can’t get a job that would pay for an apartment (a job that I’m able to keep–I’ve had a lot of problems keeping work–panic disorder, adhd, ocd, etc., but primarily my obsessive weed use, has made it difficult), I will bite the bullet and do the shelter thing–living where I am for any length of time is really not worth it, no matter how many perks there are. I can also look into getting SSI until I can get my mental problems squared away as well.

Thank you all for being so honest and up front about everything. I’m glad the response has not been simply “we feel so sorry for you”, instead, it’s been primarily decent, pertinent, honest information that I can use to improve my life.

Thank you.

Well I do think you are gay just that you have a tough time because you have been abused.

If you want to find out you can ask yourself a few questions.

Have you ever been in love?

And in that case has it been with a boys, girls or maybe both?

Do you get sexually aroused by looking at xxx pictures of men or women?

Thats all you need to have answers to to know.

Sometimes people who have been abused try to repeat that situation but in a safe enviroment as
a kind of therapy. But the fact that you seam to never have looked at a girl makes me think you know the answer.

In the end don’t spend time worrying about it right now.
It will come to you naturally when you are ready or when you are not :)

The most important thing to remember though is that we only have one life as far as we know and
how do you want to live that life?

I think you can be proud of yourself quitting drugs and leaving someone close who brought a person who brings you down into your life.
It means you don’t take shit. And if you EX boyfriend cared about you more he would have
told the other guy to stop nagging you.

I think you are worth better!

And yes many homeless people are homeless because of drugs. Though I think its something of a moment 22. Homeless people need the drugs to not having to escape their situation.

If you can stay clean you wont go homeless.

If you got Adhd you might have been self medicating.
Many people with such problems becomes addicted to drugs because it makes them calmer.

But in your case it did more damage to you than good.

Keep on fighting and promise to never give up on yourself.

first of all I’d like to say that I think its great that this forum here has become a place where people can get help. we are a rather small community with a few very active posters (and this whole thing is basically about a piece of musicsoftware, dont forget that), but I like the spirit that has recently developed here.

that said, to your problems.

first of all, what really pissed me of was that bit about that church pastor. child molesting is a fed up thing to do, I have no tolerance for it, including dumb jokes by drunk people (I killed parties because someone told some fing child-abuse joke at a late hour with lots of alcohol in their blood. ITS f****ING NOT FUNNY AT ALL).
I dont know about the laws in your country, I know that there are those “lapse of time” things which mean you cant go to the police and tell them about a crime that has been done decades ago, but maybe look into this and try to get this guy. If he is still in service, chances are that he is still doing that kind of stuff (or did until a few years ago) or maybe you can find some other victim who has been abused more recently -> but in any case, try to do something about this. And I dont mean kill or threaten him, get him by the ways of your law system.

And get away from your mother/grandmother.
I know its easy to say for me because I live in a country with a quite well working social security net and I know for sure that I can never dump down to a level where I would have to be homeless for example, but still, try to get out of there.
All I can ever say is you can be sure that there are people around you who still care for you and are willing to help you, maybe you can’t even think of them at the moment, but there are.
It is my firm believe that there are alot of sane people out there that are willing to help someone who has gone trough shit and is seriously trying to get things straight, even if they cant give you money or shelter then atleast time and an open ear or the phonenumber of someone more capable of helping you.
Afterall most people know how easily “life” dumps the big rock on you.

about this bi/gay/hetero thing…
I dunno really what to say, I can only give you my views on that stuff.
first of all I think there is a big difference between love and sex, really. And for myself, I had a long-term-relationship of love without sex (basically every two months with lights out and a mood of disgust for the whole thing), I had a few experiences of sex without love (I somewhere read that sex without love is basically two people masturbating on some slightly higher level together, which I think is a good description) and I had my last relationship, that altough fed up in a few other areas was an incredible experience in terms of love/sex-measures, altough my gf was not the “incredible beauty” in normal terms (having giving birth to two children and not having “enormous” boobs, which I dont like anyway) she was the most beatiful woman in the world for me and we had the same wavelength in that area, it never got awkard in any way). The point is that I experienced that now and I know I would not settle for something much below that in the future, honestly, bad sex would be a reason for me to end a relationship. (And in all my grief and the hate I get from my ex it helps me to know that it was a whole new level for her too and she wont get that again easily either :P )
However, it seems to me that you have not experienced that, which is in no way something I blame you for, how could I.
II think that you are really looking for someone to love you, but unfortunately these are the things that can’t be forced. I dont really know how the relationship with your bf worked before that third guy came in, but I also understand and know that gays have alot more problems in that area simply because the pool of avaiable partners is so much smaller.
Also I dont think that 3-person-relationships are prone to fail per dito, everyone has their beliefs, but if someone is telling you that they have some different standard and tries to force you to some bullshit (especially if its two guys picking at you, what a whacky shit) you have to stand up and say "f
you", because you have to live your life in a way that makes you happy, and that means that you should never, never force yourself trough shit (especially emotional shit) because someone tells you that their opinion is the right one and you are a little child because you dont see it that way. Screw them, honestly.

As for the moment, I can only advise you to let it rest for a while. Ofcourse you can go out and try to grab some girl from a club and see what happens and if the actual act of having sex with someone female does anything for you, but then again, you are in a very deep hole at the moment, you wrote you never had any relation to a woman and I dont think you can actually get it all sorted out with one, whacky alcohol induced experience with a total stranger.
As you wrote you are 33 and I know that this might seem to be getting late and everything, but I really think the world has changed on that matter in the past decades, 50 years ago everyone over 25 was married and if you were not you were simply lost.
nowadays people expect much more from relationships and dont just settle for a life with someone they learned to hate just because they gave a vow to each other some long time ago.
If I look around at the people I know in my age (close to yours) only very few are actually in a relationship, heck, the fact that I was with my ex for over fours years gave us some kind of holy glow in the eyes of most people I know.

So there are alot of people out there who deerly wish the be loved, the bad side of all this imho is that everyone is way too self-centered in these days and wants to get more then being willing to give and also alot of people simply stay away from being close to someone because they are afraid of getting hurt, but anyway, to sum it all up,

I am sure that there is someone out there that really is the fitting part for you (no matter how that woman or man-thing turns out) and that you can actually meet (maybe there are some people in asia or africa that you could live a happy life together with, but you wont meet them, unfortunately) and I also think that you dont need to feel like some door is closing on you. its really not.

get back on track, get something that keeps you occupied and that you can be proud of, start to rebuild a social life (this is hard, I really know this, but eventually it will work out) maybe even move to some place where either you know no-one or only someone so far away from you that he does not know all the stuff that happened but that can make it easier for you to meet people, and then just see what happens. I would ofcourse prefer big cities, for some obvious reasons.

All I can say is that your relationship with your boyfriend has clearly come to an end: a three people relationship sounds so strange to me, expecially since the newcomer was so picky against you, that he probably just wanted to get rid of you, and your boyfriend was agree with him, so just stop the relationship here. I know it is simple to just say it, but keeping on track with a person who doesn’t want you anymore is a great mistake which a lot of people do, and it just results in umiliation, abuse and suffering.

Get some time for yourself, now; better improve your inner and outer situation, and everything will go better with other people too: a mistake often made by people is to trying to find in a couple the equilibrium they don’t have themselves. This often results in suffering and vicious dependency on the other person, which is bad.

Refill yourself, then explore the outer world with no prejudice: if you find a girl which seems interesting to you, don’t be scared.

As for Louis, it’s time for you to put your feelings in a song ;)

A little story about how wacked out sexual encounters can warp the sexual perspective of young boys.

Shall we make this somewhat of a narrative, and give the characters fictional names.

Lets say, Alan and Steve, age 11, who have been best buddies since about age 5. One day Alan brings Steve over to one of his other friends’ houses, who Steve doesn’t know very well, with the intent of spending some quality time with…eer…lets call him Nathan…with Nathan and his Nintendo. They had done this once before together, and it was quite an enjoyable occasion, so it seemed a good plan. On arrival Nathan was unexpectedly away, which was rather odd, as he had also agreed it was quite a good idea just a few days prior. Nathans father says Nathan might be back fairly soon, he went shopping with his older brother, and offered for them to come in and watch some television while they waited for him if they liked. So they shrugged their shoulders and went into the living room to bask in the warm glow of electrons.
After about 10 minutes of watching cartoons Nathans father joins them and offers to put on some videos, which Alan and Steve are fairly reluctant to do as the cartoon still had another 10 minutes to go. So Nathans father hypes the idea up a bit, boasts that these are videos that they normally wouldnt be able to see, and talks to them in the tones adults use to talk to other adults, to make them feel older and more daring; manly if you like. So, feeling rather pleased with themselves, they agree to indulge in the videos. Lo and behold, its hardcore porn. Being at an age where they had only just discovered such phenomenon, they were awestruck, and eagerly listened to Nathan’s father’s detailed commentry on the mechanics of the situation unfolding before them onscreen. It made them feel as if they were men, no longer boys: part of the upper realms of society.
So awestruck were they, that they eagerly followed Nathan’s father into his basement so he could show them a few other things that are normally reserved for adults. Alan was highly suspicious, however, as there was nothing in the basement but some old car parts and bare, clean concrete pavement, so kept himself between Nathan’s father and the doorway, of which he took full advantage when Nathan’s father started to undo his belt. He spares a quick thought for Steve, but it is mostly dread as Nathan’s father is between them both, so keeps running.
At this point, we’re not quite sure what happens next in the basement, but Alan sprints outside and rides home on his push-bike very quickly, too embarrassed and ashamed about what happened and how he abandoned his best buddy to ever mention it to anyone
Three years later Alan starts talking to Steve again, but they never mention that day or anything related, and the friendship is not the same. At this time they are starting to experience sexual arousal for themselves, and Steve convinces Alan that experimenting with different aspects of their sexuality together was the norm; that everyone was doing it. So they practice all manner of things they would like to do with a girl if they get their hands on one; Steve tells Alan about how you can pretend its a girl and its all pretty much the same. This was all semi believable until Steve wanted to see what it was like hitting a home run, and offered to have a home run hit against him in return, when Alan had the alarm bells in his head ring again as in the basement that day. Not knowing what to do he just trys to casually tell Steve to stop because he thinks its shit, but being so casual backfired in double as Steve still wants to lose a point as short-stop.
They don’t talk again for years, and after that day, the only times they actually did speak they would compare and boast of exaggerated exploits with women. But Alan never really had much luck with women in reality because he could never look at sex with a clear mind. Most of the time he either couldn’t do it at all or regretted doing it because of the adverse effects it would have on him emotionally, and in turn the relationship, even though he was highly attracted to the women and had plentiful sex drive. But he fears it may be much worse for Steve, and God knows what happened to Nathan.


First impressions count, and they stick with you more than anything else 90+% of the time. When a child is molested or abused sexually or exposed to sexual abuse in any way whatsoever, its like their “birth” into the world of sexuality is premature and governed by fear and confusion. Imagine the first time you got on a pushbike you got hit by a car, it would make the idea of trying again a bit nerve racking. Couple that sort of fear with a primal urge and you get some messed up thought patterns. For instance, Alan has never experienced a wet dream.

Kizzume: GL mate, “we feel so sorry for you” ;)

Honestly, when I am really down I can’t concentrate on making music … I dunno why, it never worked for me in a therapeutic way … Guess its the same for some other people. but its cool when it works for you, really.

for me it works great…

anyway, i think relationships suck! Sure it would be cool to have some great relationship with a nice girl etc, but for me the following seems to be true: “girls aint nothing but trouble” They are so moody, dont really know themselves what they want… most of them dont seem to have a clue what mean the terms understanding and caring… One day she may love you, the very next day she may rip your heart out with that so innocent look on her face.

so basically i have stop caring and i think i will be better off alone… for now at least. Besides the stupid tradition is that a guy have to be the one offering entertanment all the time and making sure girly wount get bored by any means accidantely. I dont think its worth the trouble as what i get in reward is nothing but pain inside my heart

woa, woa, woa! Back it up!!!

Kizzume is not a girl?


i dont think girl can be gay :)

two guys getting it on = :blink: wtf

two girls getting it on = :yeah: :dribble: :w00t: :P

hey… but that’s just me.

really candid story. i love how everybody here is able to open themselves up for the benefit of trying to help others.

really poignant point about 1st impressions too… i never really thought of it that way but it definitely helps explain somethings to me about the people who are close to me who were sexually abused

AVB, can I ask you to use more respectful language?


I think I’ll be exploring the other side more…

Thanks for sharing your interesting story Kizzume… most of the advice that’s been given by others is good, so I won’t repeat it here.

I will, however, suggest that getting a job, holding it, and having living independance would be a really good move for people getting out of the ‘trouble zone’. The regularity and commitment of it helps you stablize. After a couple of years then you can worry about freedoms, liberations and higher-order goals. For now you need stability.

And I need not emphasise that we think your music is truly great and entertaining (I listen to it on my playlist all the time) - the narrow minded dickhead’s opinion holds no clout.

Alex, that was one very scary story. Makes me greatful for the rather ordinary teenage upbringing I had.

I’d have to disagree with trackit, having girls as close friends is great, they certainly don’t always have to be the type that totally consumes your life. There are so many levels and subtle facets of relationship satisfaction. Having said that I’m a bit like you in that I don’t actively seek ‘the conformist relationship with a girl’, although my parents would like me to.

vitaxin - music under pressure. done por le poor kitzume.

done really fast, cheap tricks and stuff. but i think i got the pressure down.
f****ing terrible stuff dude. :S

btw: Looza. do you hear any difference in the soundscape?