Help 6/8 in renoise?


(Garth Knight) #1

I thought I managed to work this out but cannot for the life of me remember …

I am trying to do 6/8 at 80 bpm ( I do mostly epic trailer music)

I need to be able to do 8th and 16th notes without messing with the lpb during the tune

Please can you help!!


(fredeke) #2

Let start from smaller time divisions and work our way to larger ones, shall we ? (we could just as well do the opposite but we need to pick one way.)

First of all, the time signature shouldn’t affect your LPB, so you can set it to anything you want, once for the whole song. In 6/8, a beat is a 8th note. If you want to play 16th notes without the help of delay commands, and since a 16th note is 1/2 of a beat, then set your LPB to at least 2.

Ok, with that we have consistent beat division. Now we need 6 beats per bar.

Renoise doesn’t consider bars as a meaningful time division, but you obviously would like a practical amount of bars per pattern: probably 1, 2, 4, 8 or 16 bars per patterns, unless you’re doing more complex structures. All you have to do for that is set your patterns’ length to the number of bars you want per pattern, multiplied by 6 (the number of beats per bar), multiplied again by your LPB.

Here’s an example: say you want 2 bars per pattern, 6 beats per bar, and 2 lines per beat. Then set your LPB to 2, and you pattern length to 2x6x2=24 lines.

You could also consider that a beat is a 4th note (not a 8th note), which would be more orthodox, and your signature is equivalent to 3/4. In that case, the above example becomes: 2 bars per pattern, 3 beats per bar, and 4 lines per beat (there are 4 16th notes per 4th note). And 2x3x4 still equals 24. The only difference is one line out of 4 will be highlighted instead of one out of two - it’s up to your preference.

Now with all these ratios, maybe at some point you’ll need to set your BPM to 40 or 160 in order to get 80. I can’t say because right now my brain is smoking, but it wouldn’t surprise me because we’re playing with 8th-notes as beats in some cases, and I believe a metronome always consider a beat to be a 1/4th note. I’m not sure and I need to lie down right now, but you will easily find this out: if your songs plays twice too fast or twice too slow, multiply or divide the tempo by 2.

I hope it helps (and I’d like to know if it works).


(cantti) #3

6/8 means 12 16th notes. So if one line is 1/16 note, 1 bar = 12 lines. 2 bars = 24 lines and so on…

Also you should keep you lpb as 6 (because one beat in 6/8 is dotted quarter note = 6 lines). bpm should be 80.

Also its useful to highlight every 6 lines (every beat) in song options instead of 4 (default).

These are just my thoughts. I might be wrong.


(Raul (ulneiz)) #4

In a 6/8, for each beat you must fit at least 6 lines (the minimum resolution), one line for each eighth note (they are 3 times). That is, LPB (Lines Per Beat) must be at least 6, and the number of lines per pattern is multiplied by x4, that is, 24 lines per pattern.

Now, if you want double the resolution, you can use an LPB of 12, you will have 12 lines to write 6 eighth notes or equivalent notes (dotted half note (3 times)), and thus make more variations, otherwise you want to use the delay of the note. In this way, LPB = 12 and 12x4 = 48 lines per pattern, which is the minimum resolution I recommend.

If you want triple resolution, LPB = 18 (6x3 = 18), and 72 lines per pattern (18x4).

6x8%20LPB-18

Then the pattern can be extended x4 if you want to save patterns (put 4 patterns of 72 lines in a single pattern, a pattern of 288 lines).

It depends on the resolution of the pattern you want to use. That is, the more notes of shorter duration you use, you must increase the resolution of the pattern (more lines for each beat).


(gentleclockdivider) #5

Guys , guys , guys
lpb defines the length of a beat , in common time this is a quarter note , etc
So 6/8 means six beats per measure , or depending on which continent you live , six beats per bar
And a beat is ( in this case ) an eight note
BUt , can be set to whatever you want . , if you want to be able to play triplets , make sure that the lpb is dividable by 3 .
NOw whatever you have set your lpb to , multiply this with your time signaure ( notes per measure ) digit .
So for 6/8 …If Iset my lpb 12 , the patten length would be 72


(cantti) #6

6/8 is compound signature. And 1 beat is 3 eight notes, not 1.


(gentleclockdivider) #7

Ah .
So 6/8 can not be gouped in 6 eight notes ?
Does it have to be grouped in 3 eigth notes ?


(Raul (ulneiz)) #8

On 6/8 they must fit 6 eighth, or grouping of notes whose sum is the duration of the 6 eighth notes. Then, the LPB (which defines the number of lines per beat) is not a fixed value, it can be any multiple value of 6 (6x1, 6x2, 6x3, or 6x4…). The more lines per beat, the more notes of shorter duration than the eighth note you can write.

At the same time, the more lines per beat, you must raise the BPM so that the reproduction is not slow and that does not agree either (too many lines in a pattern). Then you must know what shorter duration of notes you are going to use to define the LPB, if it is 6 or 12 or 18 or 24 …

From there, multiply by 4 to define the pattern (4 beats per pattern).

Examples of resolution:

  • with an LPB of 12, 2 lines last an eighth note.
  • with an LPB of 18, 3 lines last an eighth note (superior image).
  • with an LPB of 24, 4 lines last an eighth note.
  • with an LPB of 12, 1 line lasts one sixteenth note. They fit 12 sixteenths…
  • etc.

(gentleclockdivider) #9

I was adressing cantti , about the compound rytm


(Raul (ulneiz)) #10

I guess the pace can vary according to the 2 parts. A compass 6/8 has 2 parts of 3 eighth notes. You can accentuate the first eighth note of the 2 groups, or the second eighth note, or the third. And with this you set the pace. I’m just trying to write down several thoughts. There are several ways to resolve this issue, both the distribution of the lines and the rhythm used.

I can also think of another way to distribute the pattern and the LPB value for 6/8. In the example I put above, I used the marked line of the LPB as a divisor between the compasses. But it is also possible to use each line marked for each eighth note. Thus it is possible to use 6 marked lines. For example, LPB = 4 with 96 lines. So you get 24 lines per compass, with 6 lines marked

6x8%20LPB-4

I still remember the Impulse Tracker, which allowed another superimposed layer with which you could point out the division between compasses. Unfortunately, Renoise does not have this option.

Edit: I forgot the most important thing: in this way it is possible to easily change from 4/4 or 2/4 (64 lines per pattern) to 6/8 (96 lines per pattern) maintaining the LPB = 4. By starting each pattern it is possible to change the BPM to adjust the playback speed (ZTxx). I’m interested in this particular topic. In orchestral music it is very common to change the compass or accelerate / decrease the speed of reproduction.