Help Needed With Seperate Outs

Fellow Renoisers I desperate need help with this.

I managed to reach the finale round of a bandbattle contest (Rode Oortjes Festival) with my band No Repair.
I used to send all of the stuff over one stereo pair but they convinced me that the sound will get better if I send seperate tracks to the venues mixing desk.
I have 8 outputs at my disposal to do so
1&2 Drums
3&4 Bass
5&6 Guitar
7&8 Synth shizzle

My question:
How can I apply the master track effects to the seperate tracks since i need to route them to different tracks.
do I need to make groups with send tracks? what is the most convenient and sensible way?

Thank you all

You can do a send to a send, so maybe you need to send all of your sends to a fake master send which has your master effects in it :) I wonder if you could then send everything back to the original send once the fake-master-send’s effects had been applied, so you could assign separate outputs…

BUT…in the specific case of this gig, I’d personally need a LOT of convincing that the sound would be better if I sent individual tracks to the desk - mainly because my not inconsiderable touring experience makes me depressingly certain that most venues’ front of house engineers are lazy, useless wankers who’ll just stick everything at 0db and then bugger off for a beer. Especially on a ‘battle’ night, when there are lots of bands to set up and lots of swapovers. I would want to get an uninterrupted five or ten minutes in which I could run some non-live tracks through a stereo pair, tweak things until they suit the room (lots of running back and forth from the stage to the dancefloor) and then leave it at that.

Of course you might get a good, conscientious techie who really does want to get you the best possible drum panning or whatever, but unless you’re very confident in their skills, it might not be such a good idea to dismantle your own good mix and leave it to fate.

I’m making a number of assumptions - I dunno if your band involves live instruments, for example. If you’ve got live bass, do you really want it going through two channels? If it has complex multieffects, then I guess that’s likely. Otherwise you’ll be giving the engineer a tricky panning-vs-flooding dilemma. And depending on your drum micing, you might want the spare bass channel for another overhead (again, if it’s a live kit).

So…if all my assumptions are wrong, just ignore me :) Anyway, best of luck with the battle!

Thank you for your reply!
the thing what you said about the sound engineers is very true.
that’s the reason I went back to just one stereo pair.
but in this venue they really are confident that it will improve the sound, and I am also somewhat convinced.

It seems that I’m stuck with the send track sollution then.
but any other suggestions are welcome.

Well if they’re showing concern for it ahead of time, that’s encouraging and probably means they know what they’re doing :)

Well the send track thing is the way I’d do it with my UA-101, though I haven’t tried it myself…curious to hear how you get on with it.

I happen to use the UA-101 also, but you might already noticed that in my sig.
I will report here how it went. march the 6th it’s on

Well if you have any effects such as dynamics, which are different depending on the input signal, then you can’t a you can’t mix them together and separate them again. If you have things like reverb and delay then you could make a Send Track for each one and add the effect to each and then route these out.

Unless you want to provide them with a stereo pair less, have them mix in, use an input of your audio device through your mastering chain and out the final stereo pair (adding quite a lot more delay to your overall audio output.)

As to what I would provide to the engineer. I would look more at something like.

Mono Bass
Mono Kick
Mono Snare (get them to pan it, unless you use a lot of stereo panning or layered, separately panned snares, in which case you are going to have to loose something else.)
Stereo hats
Stereo synths/effect
Mono Guitar.

Goog luck with it. Will it be recorded at all?

Yes it will be recorded by them for some compilation CD.
Maybe its a good Idea to do the kick and snare seperate since they not use much stereo apart from some reverb and delay on the snare sometimes.

Maybe better ideas are spawned if I discribe my setup:
All my sounds are produced by Renoise with 2 hardware synths routed trough the software (mostly for leads and basses)
I have a guitar player that runs trough Guitar Rig also loaded as VST inside Renoise.
The drums are all sample based.

Hi Fellow Renoisers, I had the Gig last Saturday.
I had the seperate outs managed like I told in my first post.
the send track Idea worked and all 8 channels on my DI where filled correctly.

Dispite being a risky experiment (especially for a finale) it turned out very good.
Kudos to the sound engineers in that venue!
We didn’t win though, but the crowd was buzzing like I never saw before.
they recorded all of it, soon I get the material I shall post it if you guys like it.

so you route your hardware directly through renoise , may I ask you how low is your latency level ?
I have 5 ms latency and it’s still way too much to route my nord modular rtrough renoise .

5 ms should be fine. when I routed them at first I also heard a great deal of latency but after fiddeling around I got it just right.
2 things that are very important to check:
1: line-in device (live recording mode or midi return mode)
2: the instrument itself (external midi, or Line in retrigger)

i realize this is post-mortem… but i just caught this and having experience with this i wanted to add my ten cents…

sound engineers are control freaks.

in many cases it certainly can be true that engineers can make your sound better - that’s their job… however if you already have all of your backingtracks in renoise mixed to your liking and there is indeed room to breath in the mix, there is absolutely no reason to F up that mix and put it all in the engineers hands who may or may not be sitting by the sound board when you need him/her most during your set. this is why so many electronic musicians mix on stage - it’s a double edged sword as you the performer may not have the perspective to do the job perfectly (mixing) however putting it all in joe shmoe sound guy’s hands is typically proven more damaging - unless the engineer is well familiar with your songs and your desired sound and can anticipate your parts.

I’d suggest that until you’re making enough to hire your own engineer do your own mixing of laptronica from the stage.

alternatively if you really do trust this sound person - really think about what you’re doing here - what effects you have applied to the master bus which you would like to distribute to the individual channels?? if you’ve got a compressor or limiter on there, and said joe shmoe engineer is running those tracks into his house comperssors/limiters anyway, well you’re kind of defeating the (engineer’s) purpose by running all those individual tracks through another effects bus as that is the power he wants to “make it sound better”.

instead of getting fancy with rerouting could you simply copy/paste the device(s) you want from the master effect bus to the individual tracks which suit them best? you’ll have more precise sound control with this method anyway I’d suspect.