Idea: Vst Cocoon, Plug-in Wrapper?

Renoise Tool Development Renoise XML Fileformats & Tools
1

Long term project, it’s probably not feasible for me to ever get this done before it gets implemented in Renoise since I can’t code compiled languages or audio applications worth shit, but how hard would it be to make:

  • A plugin which hosts/wraps another plugin (say, side chain).
  • This meta-plugin can be instantiated on several Renoise tracks
  • Each instance is not an instance, but an alias pointing to the same plug-in
  • You control inputs and outputs based on how many instances there are.

Let’s call the plugin “VST Cocoon” and postulate the following example:

  • Track 1 is a kick drum, has an instance of VST Cocoon
  • Track 2 is a synth, has an instance of VST Cocoon
  • We open VST Cocoon, and load up slim slow slider - Side Chain Compressor in VST Cocoon
  • VST Cocoon detects that the Sidechain plug-in has Inputs: 2 (max:1) Outputs: 2 (max:2)
  • In VST Cocoon, we connect Track 1 to the input of Sidechain
  • And here’s where I’m lost…

Problems, based on absolutely no knowledge of plug-ins.

  • Each instance of a plug-in is an object, I doubt I can make those objects into references to each other?
  • I’m not clear on what the difference is between regular plug-in input and the other kind? That is to say, when I put a plug-in on a Renoise track, audio is obviously being routed through it. So what’s the difference between that and the “special input” of a side chain? More to the point how do I establish the difference in VST Cocoon?

Solution, based on absolutely no knowledge of plug-ins.

  • VST Cocoon is a stand alone application / daemon. You launch it and run it in parallel with Renoise. The plug-in instances in Renoise are actually bridges between VST Cocoon and Renoise. Kind of like how soundflower works but instead of passing Audio, you are passing plug-in stuff.

Just throwing it out there, looking for feedback, starting points, help, can’t someone else do it? Etc.

So, let’s recap with VST Cocoon as a stand alone application with bridges, here’s what I’m thinking:

  • Track 1 is a kick drum, has an instance of VST Cocoon (bridge)
  • Track 2 is a synth, has an instance of VST Cocoon (bridge)
  • Send Track 1 is empty, has an instance of VST Cocoon (bridge)
  • We open VST Cocoon (daemon) and load up slim slow slider - Side Chain Compressor
  • VST Cocoon (daemon) detects that the Sidechain plug-in has Inputs: 2 (max:1) Outputs: 2 (max:2)
  • In VST Cocoon (daemon), we connect Track 1 (bridge) to the “special input” of Sidechain
  • In VST Cocoon (daemon), we connect Track 2 (bridge) to the “regular” input of Sidechain
  • In VST Cocoon (daemon), we set the output of Sidechain to Send Track 1 (bridge)

Is this even possible?

2

I’m not sure what other effect than a sidechain compressor could benefit from something like this. So, if it’s a sidechain compressor you need, why not check out Sidekick?

It’s here: http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2054.html

I’ve checked it out only briefly, as I’ve never had any serious need for sidechaining but it seems all right.

You put the effect on the channels you need to be part of the sidechaining. There are 4 virtual channels there - alpha, beta, delta and gamma - that correspond to the order of the instances in the project. On the channel that does the basic control (like kick drum) you set none of these. You choose the virtual channel for the ones you want to duck (like bass, synth, vocals, etc).

It’s somewhat complicated to put in words, so play with it and see for yourself.

3

Cool plug-in, unfortunately I’m on an OS X machine.

I agree with your statement, not much use for all of this except Sidechaining, in Renoise.

It might still be cool though, but yeah, maybe a lot of work for nothing. Oh well, back to the drawing board?

4

Vocoders! Some I’ve encountered can’t be used in renoise because they are a:

  1. VSTi that requires an audio input.
  2. VSTfx that requires incoming MIDI notes.
  3. VSTfx that requires 2 or more stereo audio inputs.

I’m sure there are plenty of other plugins out there that fall into the above 3 categories.
The sidechain example being in category 3.

5

Perhaps effect plugins that also respond to midi signals that you can reroute to, through a VSTI wrapper?

6

hopefully the next renoise update will let you send midi-signals to vst effects (vocoders ftw!) + has a sidechaining solution, then we don’t need third party solutions.

7

i like your idea conner

but i must say a big +1 for this

8

Mmmmh… Maybe idiotic question but… Is this working now ? Sidechaining, Vocoding and any kind of audio-driven controlled VST needs this.

I know with a plug like energy XT u can achieve this. But I guess it eats a little more resources, so a built-in solution would be nice.

Does it exists ?

Edit : It’s ok, thanks to It-Alien I now know that there is the Audio Signal Follower built-in effect that made exactly what was discussed in this topic, sorry for resurrecting old zombies :P