Insert & Backspace Key Behavior

i’m really hoping that there might be a keystroke or toggle i’m missing in renoise, and if not i’d like to please add a toggle box for this functionality to the (probably rather long) list of suggestions…

To start with, it seems that the intent of renoise is to appeal to people who prefer using trackers to write music… therefore i would expect renoise to continue where previous trackers from the past left off, and not change basic pattern editing functionality (or any basic functionality for that matter). Ok… with that said…

When i select a single note in the pattern editor, enter edit mode, then hit the backspace key, i expect the currently selected note, and everything else following in that track to back a line, and delete the previous line. if i continuously hit backspace i expect that note and everything following to go back as far back as the first position of the current pattern. This is how any tracker i’ve ever used has functioned and old habits die hard.

Similarly when i enter edit mode, select a note and hit insert on my keybard, i expect the currently selected note, and everything else in that track of the current pattern to advance one line.

Since hitting backspace(PC) or the delete key under F13 on a mac doesn’t work the same way and it is the way it is now I’d imagine most renoise users are rather used to how it functions now. I’d propose this just be a toggle box somewhere or allow some kb combo that allows the above.

puh-lease renoise dev team, please address this. pretty please.

tell me your favorite cookies, candy, beer, drugs anything!! how about an ice sculpture?

thank you!!!

(and if this is just a toggle or modifier key combo i’m missing, my apologies for pleading for the obvious)

the backspace button (the one with the arrow pointing to the left , right?) works almost like you describe, but doesn’t go up to the first position in the pattern, it moves up or deletes everything under cursor position.

The problem why this doesn’t happen on a Mac by default, is that Macs have no Delete key, so we’ve mapped the delete Key behavior by default to the Backspace key. Having no key to delete is far more anyoing than having no key for backspace.

If you have a Keyboard that has both, simply remap the Delete/Backspace keys in Renoises Keyboard preference pane to do what you want.

Hi, thanks for the reply. Actually I’m not talking about the mac. I’m using a PC here. really the only difference here would be that on the mac the bkspace key is called a delete key.

maybe i’m overexplaining this? if you have access to fasttracker, milky tracker, skale tracker, mad tracker compare what the backspace key does in those apps compared to renoise. I’m quite sure buzz operates the same also.

The request i have is for the backspace key to take the CURRENTLY SELECTED line and move it back, deleting what lies in its path. NOT delete the currently selected line, then everything else following…

this is all about sample placement. i will enter edit mode, record a kb line or drum pattern, stop recording, go back to review, and if a sample came in too late and i want to move it back a beat or two, i’d tab over to the note in question, enter edit mode then hit the backspace key. If you do this in renoise the note you have selected gets deleted. not backspaced. this is annoying. please make a toggle so i can have FT2 style pattern editing.

cmon… ice sculpture. you know you want one.

I got so used to Renoises behavior, that I actually didn’t understood what you mean. But you are right, this would be more logical as this is how the backspace key usually works (in text editors and so on).

Would be fine with me to change this, but if we change this, let us please not add an option for this to get back to the old behavior. Either we find a majority for this, or leave things as they are now. I am getting headaches every time I see the “Delayed Drag&Drop” switch in the Pattern Editor Config, another option of that style and I am getting a heart attack.

BTW: ModPlugs behaves like Renoise now regarding the Backspace key. I could swear that FTII and ProTracker behave the same way? So there really is no “standard tracking behavior” as you said…

what about creating two different actions and let the user decide which one to assign to BACKSPACE into the key preferences? I see this as the most logical way to solve this.

I would see logical to set mSepsis’ way as the default for BACKSPACE

As far as I know, there never was any irritation regarding renoises backspace functionality before… changing the behavior would/could upset existing users, so making the change optional would be the way to go… Since this is one user ‘complaining’ , maybe mSepsis could also simply get used to Renoises backspace behavior :slight_smile: . Would save some clutter in the preferences.

Its about what happens when clicking on a selection that is bigger than a note/column. Clicking on a selection in MPT always drags it/never starts a new selection. People who want the “delayed DND” actually dont want to DND at all.

is this REALLY an issue here? I’ve been using ReNoise for a while…i just learned it’s behavior. It’s not your other tracker. Once you use it enough, you don’t notice anymore.

I guess I feel that even if FT2 were the only tracker ever to behave this way, it’s logical and I believe logic > standard behavior anyway. Frankly i’ve never touched ModPlugs before so i can’t speak for it.

I’m glad you agree with what I’ve pointed out regarding how the key does work and the how it trips someone who is expecting the key to do something quite different. ok so now what? It sounds like the challenge comes with implementing it.

My suggestion would be to make a toggle box in the preferences. I’m allll for less is more, but i don’t think users of trackers are the type to be afraid of a long list of configurable options under the hood, quite the opposite in my opinion.

If it comes down to switching the default behavior i think, for sure some people would find it jarring, but i think many would see the reason and possibly find it preferable and faster, more precise to edit with. But no doubt there would be a group of users frustrated that something they were used to had changed.

If you really feel this strongly about hiding certain preferences, you could make an ini file to set high level switches or whatnot, things that should be configurable but more set it and forget it type things.

thank you all for taking the time to process this suggestion!

I’ve added now key bindings (things you can map keys to in the keyboard preferences) for “Delete previous Line in Column/Track/Pattern”. Those have no defaults, so you have to map them manually if you want to use them.

Map these to the backspace key and you will get the desired bahvior.
Thats a compromise everyone can live with, or?

Thank you! this is a great compromise. Thanks for listening to my idea. I couldn’t be happier with this and everything I continue to find in renoise, even just the little touches that open creative possibilities that weren’t possible before. I couldn’t be happier to be supporting such a project that continues to grow!