I'Ve Got A Few Questions

Hey

I just started making music and Renoise is my first program. It took a little while to get into it but the tutorial site helped a lot! Thanks for that, but however, I’ve got a few questions left. A little info: I am a drum’n’bass listener and I like chopped up beats. I want to do likewise in Renoise and I have already made a nice intro but when it comes to making beats I get desperated. So here are the questions:

  1. How do I chop a break (amen break for example) without having these small gaps/noises between each chord? Renoise is a great program when it comes to making music with a steady beat or total disorder breakcore, but I can’t seem to make a decent chopped up jungle break. And I haven’t found a tutorial that explains how to do it. Please help me on this, this is my main problem at the moment!

  2. Is there a possibility to make a certain sample fit exactly over the length of one pattern? I have tried combining the pitch effect command with different octaves. Still the sound is either a little too short or too long and it’s clearly hearable. I would like to have them placed perfectly soundwave after soundwave.

  3. Can I change the pitch of a sound without affecting the length of the sample?

So far.

I need to go to bed now :) , but if you’re using loops, perfectly pre-cut .wavs of beats, check out the ‘sample properties’ in the ‘instrument settings’ tab. There is a lill checkbox named ‘sync’, toggle it on and set the correct length in steps for your loops. This way you can automatically sync the beats to any given tempo.

Once you have synced a loop to a bpm you like to work in, you could make a selection in the pattern editor and render this synced beat to a new sample instrument. Cut this rendered loop to bits and pieces that now line up perfectly in the pattern individually without gaps.

I suggest you also take a look at the tutorials regarding the offset pattern command 9XX for quick breakage and some of the songs that come with Renoise.

For question 3 you’d need external vst plugins like pitch/formant-shifters, but they often sound crap imo.

Unfortunately the samples I use are not perfectly precut. They’re either breaks from old funk records or I have cut them myself from songs I’ve found. This is also the reason I’m looking for a way to get samples fit over the length of a whole pattern. Wish there was an effect command for this.

Well, I see question 2 and 3 are actually frequently discussed topics here. I didn’t know that (and I apologize for not looking earlier around these forums!).

But if I’m already at it: What do you recommend me to do for 2 and 3?

  1. Renoise does not really have a built-in beatslicer engine like Recycle or something like that, and it doesn’t have the time-stretching modes that you can find in Ableton Live, but you just have to take your time and be a bit creative. Here’s an example I did recently which has a chopped up amen break, and I’ve applied loops to each slice of the break so that I can play each drum hit at a different pitch or longer duration, etc. It takes a bit more effort from you, but it’s worth it in the end I think.
    http://illformed.org/temp/dblue-amen-pitched.xrns (Renoise 2.5 file)

  2. Cannot be done at the moment, since there is no pitch-shifting / time-stretching engine in Renoise. This may change in the future, but who knows. Jonas is quite right to point out that most existing pitch shifters sound like crap. It’s difficult to avoid this fact, and pitch-shifting usually only works within a very limited range before it starts to distort and become useless.

  3. Jonas has already given you the answer to this one: you should use the sample sync feature.

Let’s say you have a breakbeat sample and you want to loop 1 bar of it (4 beats). If the sample is not trimmed so that it loops cleanly, then you’ll have to put a little bit of effort into cleaning it up - that’s unavoidable. Any extra crap that is not part of the loop, trim it away, otherwise it’s not gonna loop or sync correctly: (delete the junk highlighted in red)

After trimming it properly, you end up with something like this. Notice how everything is lining up much better now:

With the sample sync enabled, this nicely trimmed loop will now play perfectly in sync with the song tempo.

Oooh, I’m sorry I completely misunderstood him. Well, this helps a lot! Many thanks!

What does it look like? I can’t open it.

I understand. I was just curious to know how all the producers achieve such a strong and dark sounding amen, whereas my attempt sounded like rushed happy hardcore jungle. Well something like this.

It’s a Renoise 2.5 song file, so you should download the 2.5 demo or grab your licensed copy from the backstage area if you are a registered user.

Sure. You can change the pitch of something without changing its duration. That’s exactly what my example file here shows :) All I meant to say is that it requires a little bit of effort to make it work. There is no handy tool to do everything automatically for you, but you can definitely achieve these results with Renoise. Rather than adjusting the pitch of the entire breakbeat, what I do is cut the break down into every smaller piece (every drum hit, for example), and then you could play each individual hit at any pitch you want to without using the sync feature. If you want the break to sound continuous and have no gaps inbetween the hits/slices, then you have to be a bit creative by extending each hit somehow, but it’s still possible. In my example I apply loops to the tail section of every hit, which kinda works well enough.

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  1. Under instrument settings find sample properties. Under this there is a sync box that if you check it will sync the sample to however many pattern lines you set it to. You don’t necessarily have to sync the sample to the length of the pattern, you could try smaller intervals, like half the pattern length or 4th the pattern length, as long as your breakbeat’s note commands fill the pattern in intervals that sound right. You really just have to experiment with this. Also, you really should cut any parts of the breakbeat sample that are just dead air or anything on the front or end of it that shouldn’t be there. Do this before you sync the break.

  2. As for this, go with what dblue said, that’s the best advice I could give you.

Some general advice on breakbeat cut ups:

09xx: sample offset command; one of the best effect commands ever; all this simply does is allow you to change what part of the of the sample begins playing instead of automatically beginning play at the beginning of the sample; you input the position where you want the sample to start playing where xx is, the appropriate numbers to input are found in the bottom right corner of the sample editor and change according to where you place the line on the sample’s waveform; this command allows you to “slice” samples without actually cutting and pasting individual pieces

Actually cutting and pasting individual pieces does allow for more control of sample properties and running the individual slices through different effects and whatnot, but it is more tedious. Basically, it’s up to you based off of what you are trying to accomplish.

A site like http://mp3.deepsound.net/eng/samples_calculs.php will help you with the maths involved in shifting/stretching/edting. Makes working between samples, ms, BPM, measures, etc… so much easier.

Thanks. I haven’t tried to process it this way. But I’ll give it a try.

Yeah, I’ve known the 09xx command and aldready worked with it. I find it rather inaccurate for chopping breaks and I was unsatisfied with the results. However, chopping preset drumloops from sample packs can be done flawlessly with this.

Great site! Thanks for this.